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Time to think about closing the schools

545 replies

DolphinFC · 16/12/2021 16:44

ONS survey finds that education staff are 37% more likely to catch Covid than other workers.

Previous data showed they were no more likely to catch covid than other workers and many people (especially MNetters) felt that this was all the proof needed to keep schools open.

Well, new data shows the reverse is now the case.

Time to think about closing the schools
OP posts:
LittleBabyCheeses · 18/12/2021 17:33

Because many of these things are against the guidance

It’s just guidance though.

MrsHamlet · 18/12/2021 17:41

@LittleBabyCheeses

Because many of these things are against the guidance

It’s just guidance though.

Bubbles were a huge problem in secondary. And we have some utterly impossible parents who raise complaints at every single mitigation.
LittleBabyCheeses · 18/12/2021 17:43

I don’t think our school is in a particularly ‘compliant’ area. The Head explained why she was keeping those particular mitigations in place and that was that.

LittleBabyCheeses · 18/12/2021 17:44

And yes, bubbles have been challenging. It’s a trade off though isn’t it? Better that than closing schools again.

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 18/12/2021 17:47

@DolphinFC

You have to compare this with the medical emergency over the last year and the commitment on the part of medical professionals, and nurses, and doctors.They’ve gone the extra mile at great cost to themselves, and their families, their health – they have sacrificed their lives in some cases. We need a similar commitment by the teaching profession over the next academic year.
No thanks. Your family aren’t important to me. My life and my family are important to me. I won’t be sacrificing myself whilst General Melchitt and co. sit safely back in Blighty.
LittleBabyCheeses · 18/12/2021 17:51

Ok, so you don’t care about our kids @BustopherPonsonbyJones… that’s fine. Don’t expect you to really. But then why should we care about the health of teachers?
I mean, I do care about the health of teachers. But I’m wondering why I should, when you say things like that.

Piggyinblankets · 18/12/2021 17:52

@LittleBabyCheeses

I don’t think our school is in a particularly ‘compliant’ area. The Head explained why she was keeping those particular mitigations in place and that was that.
Your head must have supreme self confidence. It was made pretty clear that regional Schools Commissioners could take action against schools who kept bubbles and restricted thins such as assemblies.

The threatening and posturing from the DfE towards schools has been very aggressive. They encouraged parents to report schools to Ofsted, for example.

noblegiraffe · 18/12/2021 17:54

Yes, let’s not forget the DfE’s major focus this last few weeks has been telling schools not to cancel nativities.

LittleBabyCheeses · 18/12/2021 17:54

Your head must have supreme self confidence

She does. And it has paid off, because no action has been taken.

Itisasecret · 18/12/2021 17:54

Actually it’s not just guidance. Parents can and are reporting schools to Ofsted/LA for not following it. Which is triggering action. That’s before you get on to the death threats/threats of legal action heads are receiving. Schools cannot and should not be going against Govt guidance.

That is until they are told, we were told to bubble and close year groups because of ratios.

LittleBabyCheeses · 18/12/2021 17:55

@noblegiraffe

Yes, let’s not forget the DfE’s major focus this last few weeks has been telling schools not to cancel nativities.
We never had a nativity planned. It was agreed back in October that we wouldn’t do one.
Grumpyosaurus · 18/12/2021 17:57

I'm just incredibly relieved to have got to the holidays without a positive lateral flow. I'm still testing almost daily.

I don't want another lockdown, as it's so bad for so many of the children, never mind difficult for their parents, but it's pretty unpleasant working in a classroom with 10% of the kids and one member of staff all off with Covid at the same time, and wondering when you're going to get it.

I was enjoying getting back to normal. Omicron can do one.

LittleBabyCheeses · 18/12/2021 18:16

Schools cannot and should not be going against Govt guidance

I mean… it worked 🤷🏻‍♀️. No complaints, no death threats, no action taken against the school and we’ve had one teacher case and 3 pupil cases since the start of term.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 18/12/2021 18:47

I'm a governor at a school and I know how tough its been but it's also been tough for lots of other

With respect, @SpinsForGin, you are not actually in schools day to day, working in them. A learning walk and governors' meeting every now and again tells you very little about staff experiences day to day. We all put on a show to governors when they come in to school as it's about presenting ourselves in the best light. Being positive about everything. Not one member of staff would be willing to enter a governors' meeting to say if staff are unhappy or uncomfortable to do x, y and z practice.

I've worked in a bad school in the past where a LOT was hidden from governors. They didn't have a clue about some of the stuff that went on, and ultimately were powerless to make any real changes to how the school was run.

So no, I really don't think you do know how tough it's been for school staff.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 18/12/2021 19:07

@Giveaschitt

That was in reference to the "if you don't want to teach your kids to use a knife and fork, don't have kids" comment - quote didn't work!
That was me. I'm very well aware of how rough some kids have it at home, thankyou. I've seen and heard everything from one extreme to the other, I'm sadly no longer shocked to hear the worst kind of comments and actions from people who call themselves parents.

But there will be many children who can't use a knife and fork who have perfectly ok and loving parents, not particularly neglectful, but who just can't see the importance of good table manners and who prefer to cook meals that can be eaten with fingers like a burger or something. That's up to them.

My point is that school is about educating children, not making up for ALL deficiencies in parenting. How far would you want to go? Give lessons to kids on how to brush their teeth properly? Or tie their shoe laces? Show them how to wash themselves so that they don't smell?

I think there's probably a case for a better way of ensuring that parents have the necessary skills to parent properly, I grant you. But we just can't put EVERY LAST THING on being a good member of society onto schools. We just can't. Every year more and more responsibility is piled on to teachers, and every year more and more parents do things like turn up late to school because they don't see the importance of turning up on time to drop off or collect their child, or they have no judgement at all and ring up school well after home time for the most ridiculous thing, wasting staff time eg "er, hi, my child is very upset because they've left their hat in school. Could you go and check that it's in the classroom please, and I'll come and collect it?" Hasn't even crossed their mind that the child can get it in the morning, or that staff are very busy even after children have gone home and don't have time for multiple phone calls like that from fusspot parents.

Not everything is a school's responsibility.

cantkeepawayforever · 18/12/2021 19:10

My point is that school is about educating children, not making up for ALL deficiencies in parenting. How far would you want to go? Give lessons to kids on how to brush their teeth properly? Or tie their shoe laces? Show them how to wash themselves so that they don't smell?

We do all those things, as I suspect most primaries do?

Abitlost2 · 18/12/2021 19:15

How about childcare and nurseries/ creches? Should they not be closed too? Why were they kept open before when those workers can't wear masks and are in v v close proximity to kids?

CurlyhairedAssassin · 18/12/2021 19:17

Really, cantkeep? You stand with an individual child who is actually brushing their teeth with a toothbrush and toothpaste and watch that they're getting every surface of every tooth? You put them in the shower and check that are using enough soap and rinsing the shampoo out of their hair? I'm being facetious but you know what I mean.

There is a difference between giving a lesson in school on personal care and hygiene and just describing to children what you should do, and being at home with them and being there with them as they do it.

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 18/12/2021 19:34

@LittleBabyCheeses

Ok, so you don’t care about our kids *@BustopherPonsonbyJones*… that’s fine. Don’t expect you to really. But then why should we care about the health of teachers? I mean, I do care about the health of teachers. But I’m wondering why I should, when you say things like that.
But you clearly do expect me to care as you want me to sacrifice myself to help your family (your words, not mine). Can you explain why you think I should sacrifice myself for you and yours? Your ‘caring’ is very well masked in selfishness, arrogance and a lack of self-awareness.
LittleBabyCheeses · 18/12/2021 19:35

I haven’t asked you to sacrifice yourself? Have you got the wrong person?

LittleBabyCheeses · 18/12/2021 19:35

I haven’t asked anything of you at all.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 18/12/2021 19:37

@BustopherPonsonbyJones you aren't sacrificing yourself. Stop being so dramatic. Presumably you are vaccinated?

Piggyinblankets · 18/12/2021 19:39

Buster, I think you are confused - someone upthread quoted Michael Wilshaw who said teachers should sacrifice themselves.

manysummersago · 18/12/2021 19:39

I would seriously not stay in a job that I thought would kill me.

echt · 18/12/2021 20:06

@DolphinFC

You have to compare this with the medical emergency over the last year and the commitment on the part of medical professionals, and nurses, and doctors.They’ve gone the extra mile at great cost to themselves, and their families, their health – they have sacrificed their lives in some cases. We need a similar commitment by the teaching profession over the next academic year.
Every time a teacher is working outside the set hours, the 1265, they are going the extra mile.

Every evening, every weekend, every day the school is closed for holidays that teachers work, they are going the extra mile.

Every time a teacher pays for school equipment for their class are going the extra mile. More than this, they are taking food out of the mouths of their family.

The fact that this has gone on for years pre-Covid does not mean that teachers have to dig even deeper into their own resources.