To think the government should just lockdown and bring furlough back...

[Riskyrice]

.... As right now we might as well be in lockdown? Its like a lockdown by stealth-scaring the shit out of people so they stay at home, but not offering any support to businesses impacted.

I work in retail and this morning I have had 1 customer. This would usually be a busy week with people christmas shopping. It is also usually busy between Xmas and new year, but I imagine it will be tumbleweed. So many pubs are going to be in trouble because everyone has cancelled Xmas party bookings.

The government should just close shops and hospitality now and bring back furlough instead of this ridiculous middle ground.

@MorningStarling

I agree that there should be another lockdown but disagree about bringing back furlough. I think we just need to let businesses fail, a good business will have a backup plan to cope with a few more months of no income. Businesses that are surviving hand to mouth can be afforded to let go under. Their better prepared competitors will take over their customer base, and when the pandemic is over there will be an opportunity for new companies to fill any gap in the market.

It's unfortunate for the staff who will be let go of course but there are always casualties. The money spent on furlough is either borrowed or diverted from elsewhere. In either case it means other services will suffer and the people who rely on those services will suffer.

No furlough harms the staff of a failed business but furlough harms society more widely.

So where do we find the money to prop up the welfare system when all these 'casualties' need to claim universal credit, thus increasing the welfare bill? That'll have to be borrowed or diverted from elsewhere too. It's going to come from somewhere, unless of course we just give them nothing and let them go under too (which I'm sure some people would prefer). Do you have to face that prospect at the moment? Of losing your job and having no income because your employer has gone under and you've been 'let go' due to lack of business because of covid? Because it's very easy to talk about businesses going under and 'casualties' of course when you're not facing the very real threat yourself.

Yes to lockdown, would only support furlough if it was allocated according to need. So many working class families in remarkably low incomes for full time work are having their benefits reduced while people earning thousands a month are having a paid holiday when they have substantial savings and do not need the money as much because even when furloughed they are still receiving thousands a month.

I do love it on these threads about furlough though when poster's act like mass business failure, unemployment and universal credit applications would be much better for the economy than furlough.

Stemming of course from jealousy that other people got to 'sit on their arse and get paid' rather than any actual logic.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro A lot of vaccinators were volunteers, so if they were getting a furloughed wage at the time then all the better. Or do you think it's fair that some people were getting double wages for 1 job?

@sirfredfredgeorge

We spent way too much subsidising the rich, no furlough which only mildly helps the poor, it mostly subsidises the business owners who were paying them.

Universal Basic Income, not furlough, and certainly no more bail outs for capital.

Yup.

@RoastedParnsip

No I want to not be made unemployed at Christmas. What an unpleasant comment.

So why do you want to be furloughed so badly just because you had a quiet day?

I don't WANT to be furloughed for the sake of it, I want the government to be honest and fair and not destroy retail and hospitality by whipping up so much hysteria that its essentially a lockdown whilst offering no support for businesses.

I hated being furloughed the first time around, but would rather be furloughed than unemployed because believe it or not I like working for a small independent business, the type that is going to be most at risk of closing.

YABU

At the shopping mall now and it is busy. Perhaps OP works in a really non essential shop. M&S cafe is quite busy

So you think with a mere 15 in hospital there is cause for a lockdown?!

@caringcarer

Also last time we had furlough Sunak said there were many fraudulent claims by businesses and the self employed. Until they find a better way of validating claims I don't think there will be any more furlough. Tax people are still going through claims and clawing money back now.

Hardly surprises me. So many people abuse the system and that's not people claiming 'benefits' like most people would argue, but lots of business owners getting grants for doing the square root of fuck all. My DH noticed that when these grants were issued, many of the directors of businesses working in his industrial estate suddenly upgraded their already expensive cars.....

[quote CellophaneFlower]@Getyourarseofffthequattro A lot of vaccinators were volunteers, so if they were getting a furloughed wage at the time then all the better. Or do you think it's fair that some people were getting double wages for 1 job?[/quote]
Do I think it's fair? Fair to who? And it's not double wage is it?

I don't think anything about lockdown is fair but I don't think it'll become any more fair by forcing people to vaccinate

@RogueV

What so you can go home and sit on your arse?

Righto

I've not been furloughed once and did 12 hour days repeatedly throughout last year to pick up the bits of work our furloughed staff weren't there to do. Subsequently had a breakdown earlier this year.

I'd still support lockdown + furlough being reintroduced. The alternative is that we let thousands of hospitality businesses die and leave their staff without employment.

Maybe get another job OP in a supermarket or are you staying in your job in hope of some furlough money

No - we can't keep locking down and furloughing people. We can't afford it and we have to learn to live with COVID. It isn't going anywhere.

Inflation is at unparalleled levels

I take it you don't remember the 1970s? Or know any recent history? And that's only talking about the UK.

Furlough has already been wasted once propping up unviable businesses

[quote RoastedParnsip]@Riskyrice you do reliese where the government gets their money from right? You don't make a whole lot of sense..... [/quote]
Actually if they lockdown and furlough there will be even more reduced tax revenue and much higher costs. As things stand the revenue reduction is lower and the only cost is any increased uptake of benefits.

And it's not double wage is it? confused I was referring to the people who took on another full time job whilst furloughed.

I agree OP. I detested LD and there's no way I want it back, but this mixed messaging is very difficult and unfair. Leaving everywhere open to avoid providing financial help, then trying to frighten people into staying in anyway. Its also very divisive, as once again the people who the government have successfully frightened are once again judging other people for their lawful activities.

@User5329806

Maybe get another job OP in a supermarket or are you staying in your job in hope of some furlough money

Erm the business I work for hasn't closed down so why would I quit my job to go and work on a supermarket? I'm guessing you think only essential retail outlets should exist? Has it occurred to you that I have skills and experience specific to a certain type of retail and that I like my job and don't want the business to fold? Or are you applied some kind of vile belief that anyone working a something as lowly as a shop must be a knuckle dragging moron, just handing around in the hope of a hand out.

@CellophaneFlower

And it's not double wage is it? confused I was referring to the people who took on another full time job whilst furloughed.

That's still not a double wage considering you didn't get your full wage on furlough

The only reason I didn't go shopping today was that I couldn't park... At an out of town shopping centre with 10k parking spaces. In my experience, everywhere is busy. I got my nails done the other day and every tech was busy, had to queue to get a drink in a coffee shop etc.

The idea of furlough coming back fills me with dread. My organisation furloughed last time for childcare, even though we are key workers. I can't see it happening again and there would be uproar.

It’s not like that here in Yorkshire, busy as normal. But we have low cases at the moment.

Erm the business I work for hasn't closed down so why would I quit my job to go and work on a supermarket? I'm guessing you think only essential retail outlets should exist? Has it occurred to you that I have skills and experience specific to a certain type of retail and that I like my job and don't want the business to fold? Or are you applied some kind of vile belief that anyone working a something as lowly as a shop must be a knuckle dragging moron, just handing around in the hope of a hand out.

But working in an independent specialised shop is a risky job to have and a risk you take by having it. It's nice to do a job we love, and a privilege few have to be fair, but it's also rare that it's a job that pays the bills with no risk of anything going wrong and being able to afford a lifestyle that we want. I would love to be a groom for a top rider, but the pay is shit. I couldn't afford my lifestyle on it, so here I am in public sector, a safe well paying job, but not something I love doing.

I do wonder if this may be preferable. I know a lot of people think that we can’t afford to furlough again. But I think i read previously that uncontrolled virus transmission could actually be worse for the countries economy for various reasons. So I don’t think there is an easy answer