To think the government should just lockdown and bring furlough back...

[Riskyrice]

.... As right now we might as well be in lockdown? Its like a lockdown by stealth-scaring the shit out of people so they stay at home, but not offering any support to businesses impacted.

I work in retail and this morning I have had 1 customer. This would usually be a busy week with people christmas shopping. It is also usually busy between Xmas and new year, but I imagine it will be tumbleweed. So many pubs are going to be in trouble because everyone has cancelled Xmas party bookings.

The government should just close shops and hospitality now and bring back furlough instead of this ridiculous middle ground.

No.

That's still not a double wage considering you didn't get your full wage on furlough Christ. Ok I'll put it more simply for you. Rather than allowing people to sit at home when there are jobs that need filling during these times, maybe getting people to work for their furloughed wage makes sense? I mean you seem to be all for the country pulling together, right?

@CellophaneFlower

That's still not a double wage considering you didn't get your full wage on furlough Christ. Ok I'll put it more simply for you. Rather than allowing people to sit at home when there are jobs that need filling during these times, maybe getting people to work for their furloughed wage makes sense? I mean you seem to be all for the country pulling together, right?

I'll ask again, what are we going to do with their children?

No. No more fucking furlough for everyone to pay for.

Put the money into the NHS if there is any to spend, and we wouldn’t need fucking furlough

Op I actually agree some sort of support should be put in place for businesses which expected to trade while their customers are being told to be careful.

I'll ask again, what are we going to do with their children

Furlough wasn’t meant to be child care related

@MrsFin

I doubt schools will close again. But if they do they would remain open for people who need the "childcare", just like last time.

This did NOT happen! Schools were not open for my children. Do not rewrite history.

Good lord, no. I certainly don't want another lockdown and businesses shut propped up with furlough.
Public sector pay freezes, NI rises etc are going to be tough to pay off the first lot .

People are creating their own lockdown, just look at some of them threads on MN!

What's the point of having 3 vaccines to lock down anyway?

@CellophaneFlower

The issue I had with furlough was that furloughed staff could get another job. Made no sense to me, unless they were limited to only earning what they needed to top up their furlough to their usual wage.

Perhaps if furloughed staff had to actually work for their wage (vaccinators, emergency response operators etc) it may have made sense.

At one point, supermarkets were crying out for staff, whilst some sat at home being paid. How is this right? So yes, perhaps no furlough and universal credit instead might make sense.

You're missing the important fact that furlough was needed to pay enough parents to stay at home with their children.

School functions as important childcare. If this is removed, parents who rely on it will in many cases have to use ad hoc, informal childcare solutions instead. This means more contacts.

The lockdowns we've had that incorporated school closures were done so we could get numbers down. For that to work, you need to reduce contacts. Offering parents money to stay at home with their kids and keep them out of the way is a big part of that. If you don't do that, contacts and therefore case numbers will be higher.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

I'll ask again, what are we going to do with their children

Furlough wasn’t meant to be child care related

Childcare was literally one of the reasons a person could be furloughed.

Pay people to stay home getting depressed for a mild cold!!! Err no ..

The amount of threads asking for lockdown.,.

Hope not

Also, if a business takes a say, quarter of its turnover in December and it's a shit December because of a pandemic, that's less money in the tax pot

Yes, but it's mostly the business that is harmed, so as long as you protect the workers - with a good social net, then the business owner pays. This is what once was the capitalist ideal, you get to get rich by taking risks, sure the risk of a global pandemic is a long shot, but then lots of businesses really aren't very risky at all, so it is those long shot risks that you're really taking.

Subsidising their losses is the problem - especially as if it really is a viable business it will come back really quickly and more profitably for either the same people or someone else. You just need to protect the workers in between - that's not furlough and tax breaks for companies, that's UBI.

NO! There should be no further lockdowns or furlough. Fuck that.

People need to run their businesses and livelihoods. Boris Johnson needs to shut up with this hysteria and stop undermining public confidence.

No of course we dont need another lockdown. The consequences of repeated lockdowns are far too serious

Childcare was literally one of the reasons a person could be furloughed.

Could ask to be, as in, if the business was choosing some people, ask to be one of those people.

Not one of the reasons for having it in the first place

Otherwise all of us with children could have asked for furlough including those in the public sector who 1. Weren’t classed as key first time around, 2. Weren’t eligible for furlough so had to work with young children in the background, 3. Then had a pay freeze plus a tax rise to pay for other people’s fucking furlough.

@sirfredfredgeorge

Also, if a business takes a say, quarter of its turnover in December and it's a shit December because of a pandemic, that's less money in the tax pot

Yes, but it's mostly the business that is harmed, so as long as you protect the workers - with a good social net, then the business owner pays. This is what once was the capitalist ideal, you get to get rich by taking risks, sure the risk of a global pandemic is a long shot, but then lots of businesses really aren't very risky at all, so it is those long shot risks that you're really taking.

Subsidising their losses is the problem - especially as if it really is a viable business it will come back really quickly and more profitably for either the same people or someone else. You just need to protect the workers in between - that's not furlough and tax breaks for companies, that's UBI.

It has occurred to me that "hospitality" as such is very likely to continue - there will be cafes and bars and restaurants still when the pandemic ends, and there may well be some areas flourishing as people get back the social lives they want, possibly more places with an al fresco vibe.

The ownership of the cafes and restaurants might change, as some pubs/ chains / independents sadly go out of business.

But the chefs and waiters and other kitchen staff will find new employers and there will be customers.

Not sure what UBI is, but broadly agreeing with you there.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

Childcare was literally one of the reasons a person could be furloughed.

Could ask to be, as in, if the business was choosing some people, ask to be one of those people.

Not one of the reasons for having it in the first place

Otherwise all of us with children could have asked for furlough including those in the public sector who 1. Weren’t classed as key first time around, 2. Weren’t eligible for furlough so had to work with young children in the background, 3. Then had a pay freeze plus a tax rise to pay for other people’s fucking furlough.

It was for childcare. It specifically said something about it. I know because I highlighted it and emailed it to my then employer because they wouldn't believe me.

Not sure what UBI is, but broadly agreeing with you there

Universal Basic Income - enough money to live for all, not enough to live well necessarily, but enough to live.

@CellophaneFlower

The issue I had with furlough was that furloughed staff could get another job. Made no sense to me, unless they were limited to only earning what they needed to top up their furlough to their usual wage.

Perhaps if furloughed staff had to actually work for their wage (vaccinators, emergency response operators etc) it may have made sense.

At one point, supermarkets were crying out for staff, whilst some sat at home being paid. How is this right? So yes, perhaps no furlough and universal credit instead might make sense.

Right. So I'm laid off from my job as a brickie on Friday and you're going to roll up your sleeve for me to vaccinate you the following Monday? You do realise that jobs require specific skills and attributes that means not everyone can do everything that needs doing? And you want everyone unfortunate enough to be in a job the government forbids them to do to have to claim benefits? I'm guessing your job isn't one of them.

So you think with a mere 15 in hospital there is cause for a lockdown?!

There are currently 7673 covid patients in hospital, 896 of which are in ventilated beds. The 15 patients in hospital relates specifically to omicron. The worry is that this number will grow exponentially and overwhelming services. Even with a mild infection and mass vaccination there will be people who need hospital treatment and this puts pressure on the NHS, it is already a high pressure time of year so this additional pressure could cause the NHS to exceed capacity and be overrun. Measures are needed to manage the numbers so that this pressure is spread out and not delivered in one concentrated burst, like I said in my earlier post there needs to be a middle ground between a free for all and a full lockdown but the government are so shit that they won't even attempt to find it and we will then end up in a mess when it spirals out of control again.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

Childcare was literally one of the reasons a person could be furloughed.

Could ask to be, as in, if the business was choosing some people, ask to be one of those people.

Not one of the reasons for having it in the first place

Otherwise all of us with children could have asked for furlough including those in the public sector who 1. Weren’t classed as key first time around, 2. Weren’t eligible for furlough so had to work with young children in the background, 3. Then had a pay freeze plus a tax rise to pay for other people’s fucking furlough.

The point being, it's nonsense to say furlough wasn't intended to be childcare related when the scheme allowed people to receive it for exactly that reason. There was also no requirement for the business to be furloughing anyway, as you claim here. It could be and sometimes was a standalone reason.

@5128gap I'm not sure why vaccinators keep getting mentioned? It was an example I used, that's all. Are you incapable of working in a supermarket or being a delivery driver, as other examples?

And in any case, as far as I'm aware, the construction industry didn't lockdown. There was disruption with materials, yes, but no builders I know got furloughed. In fact it's the opposite. Nobody can get one as they're in such a demand... lockdown included.

I'll ask again, what are we going to do with their children?

I hope there's no lockdown and I certainly don't want schools to close again. My children have missed enough. However, if it was to happen, they'd need to try to keep them open for families where both parents are working/single working parents. Our school stayed open. It was disgusting the way some parents twisted the guidelines and sent them in needlessly, whilst they stayed at home. I have no idea of the amount of kids without a non-working parent... but I'm guessing it would allow schools to be less congested and allow more distancing. Of course, staffing won't always be adequate, but I don't have all the answers unfortunately. But sticking people on furlough again during a pandemic that isn't going anywhere fast isn't one of them. It isn't sustainable and was meant as a short term sticking plaster, not a way of life.

@MorningStarling
Your attitude is shocking! 1000's of hospitality companies have borrowed money to keep afloat in the last 2 years, they have houses on the line and you think it's ok for them just to go bankrupt as another company will pick up their custom! Shame on you in your ivory tower!