Why is immunity from actual COVID-19 infection never mentioned?

[BlibBlabBlob]

Just that really; we're all being heavily encouraged to have a third jab but surely those of us who had COVID since getting the second jab have just as much immunity (if not more) as those who haven't recently been infected but have had their third jab?

I had AZ in April and July and would be happy enough to get a booster jab now if I hadn't had COVID in October. But surely that was my 'booster'? The third jab isn't specifically targeted at Omicron, so wild infection (presumably with Delta) has surely given me all the immune boost I need for the next few months?

Am still not 100% after actual COVID, I saw somewhere that it could be 12 weeks to fully recover (not including proper Long COVID of course). Not keen to have another jab yet because (a) I don't think it will give me any additional immunity at this point in time, (b) I'm worried about assaulting my immune system again while still getting over wild COVID, and (c) the first two jabs made me very ill and I selfishly don't fancy being bedridden again over Christmas.

Can it really be the case that having actually had COVID recently doesn't make the blindest bit of difference to immunity levels, but somehow a third jab (which isn't tailored specifically to Omicron, of course) will do what natural infection cannot?

Or is it just that if there is any deviation from the 'get your jab NOW' messaging, there is fear that the booster campaign will be harmed?

It's mentioned all the time on here. As an alternative to vaccination.
It's mentioned in scientific papers too. Vaccination following prior infection is the best combo.

It's patchy how long it lasts after infection. My MIL had covid in the first wave & was tested for antibodies as part of a study 3 months later - she had none, despite definitely having covid.

Your immune system is constantly assaulted, everytime you breathe in it gets something new to deal with. Thrrr is nothing magic against antigens that are injected in.
Take the advice and have the booster when you are eligible, you are not a scientist, why try to second guess those that are?

Isn’t it? I see it loads, maybe you’re not looking in the right places?

I think natural immunity fell off the radar following that Brazilian city Manaus that experienced a large wave of covid in 2020 to levels that should confer signs of herd immunity and then had another large wave. Then vaccines were approved and it became the obvious path to go.

There is interest in why India and Japan have both had waves that have apparently naturally declined but no one (as far as I know) had been able to pinpoint why so it’s not replicable.

@BlibBlabBlob

Just that really; we're all being heavily encouraged to have a third jab but surely those of us who had COVID since getting the second jab have just as much immunity (if not more) as those who haven't recently been infected but have had their third jab?

I had AZ in April and July and would be happy enough to get a booster jab now if I hadn't had COVID in October. But surely that was my 'booster'? The third jab isn't specifically targeted at Omicron, so wild infection (presumably with Delta) has surely given me all the immune boost I need for the next few months?

Am still not 100% after actual COVID, I saw somewhere that it could be 12 weeks to fully recover (not including proper Long COVID of course). Not keen to have another jab yet because (a) I don't think it will give me any additional immunity at this point in time, (b) I'm worried about assaulting my immune system again while still getting over wild COVID, and (c) the first two jabs made me very ill and I selfishly don't fancy being bedridden again over Christmas.

Can it really be the case that having actually had COVID recently doesn't make the blindest bit of difference to immunity levels, but somehow a third jab (which isn't tailored specifically to Omicron, of course) will do what natural infection cannot?

Or is it just that if there is any deviation from the 'get your jab NOW' messaging, there is fear that the booster campaign will be harmed?

So many of these threads.

I have no idea how anyone could say "natural immunity is never mentioned" with a straight face.

It's an area of intensive research, there's hundreds of papers published on it, scientists globally are scrambling to understand what a previous infection translates to in terms of immunity (duration, robustness etc) in a rapidly changing situation. The ONS have been tracking antibodies produced in response to infection for the best part of a year in the general population. Many countries with COVID status/vaccine passports allow a previous infection in a certain period as an alternative to vaccination.

It is not possible to predict how long someone is immune for after infection, especially now with the new variant. Vaccination has been shown to boost existing immunity and help prevent re-infection. As we face another potential wave of cases, the more people vaccinated, the less infections, transmission, hospitlisations, deaths, and disruption to everyday life (ie education, medical care, shops, hospitality) we will have.

Sorry, I should probably have said 'never mentioned by Boris et al'. If you have to wait at least six months - or now three months - since your last jab to have a booster, how is it safe or advisable to have another jab less than three months after having actual COVID?

Would they even be willing to jab me if I showed up for one so soon after having natural infection, and while still not fully recovered from it?

Also I'm well aware that immunity can fade over time, but also that T cell immunity is a thing but will not show up on an antibody test.

If my COVID infection had been in 2020, I'd be getting the booster now.

But it was literally a few weeks ago.

The vaccine booking website says that you are supposed to wait 28 days after a positive test before having a booster.

The scientists mention natural immunity from infection all the time. It's studies along with other methods by those looking for statistical evidence as to what works best. The immune system response to a vaccine is much stronger than the response to an infection, so still get your booster.

It's interesting too, because in a number of EU countries, having had covid counts as 1 vaccine basically. A very different approach.

They ask you at the jab site if you have had covid in the last 4 weeks.
With this push now for boosters does that go out the window? If I’ve just come out of my 10 day isolation can I have the booster?

I've had 2x Pfizer and a very mild dose of covid in late October (post vaccination). I'm in no hurry to get my booster - I'll wait till the rush is over.

@SinoohXaenaHide

The vaccine booking website says that you are supposed to wait 28 days after a positive test before having a booster.

The scientists mention natural immunity from infection all the time. It's studies along with other methods by those looking for statistical evidence as to what works best. The immune system response to a vaccine is much stronger than the response to an infection, so still get your booster.

How on earth can the immune system response to a vaccine be 'much stronger' than the response to an actual infection?

Measles doesn't work like that: a single natural infection in childhood gives lifelong immunity. Whereas if you get it via vaccination, it's at least three injections (age 1, age 3-4 and teenage). With no strong evidence that you remain immune later in adulthood.

I had Covid at the end of October and I have just booked my booster for 3rd Jan - I have been dithering when to have it based on conflicting advice from my GP (said to wait 2 months) and what I have read online.
I have taken two antibody tests (invited by NHS when tested positive on PCR) and both say I have antibodies from the vaccine (now 7 months since last jab) and recent covid infection

It is mentioned, but there are two slightly different types of immune antibodies - one through vaccination and one through infection. You can be tested to see which ones you have and they show up differently. So immunity through vaccination plus immunity gives you the best coverage of all.

How on earth can the immune system response to a vaccine be 'much stronger' than the response to an actual infection?Measles doesn't work like that: a single natural infection in childhood gives lifelong immunity. Whereas if you get it via vaccination, it's at least three injections (age 1, age 3-4 and teenage). With no strong evidence that you remain immune later in adulthood.

You get two slightly different types of immune cells from vaccination and natural infection for Covid. The cross immunity given by both is important because it covers more potential viral mutations.

Covid is a small, fast mutating virus, like flu or a cold, so each version you encounter will be slightly different, with very slightly different genetic protein structures. Two slightly different types of antibody give you the best protection.

In comparison, measles is a large, stable, slow mutating virus. The genetic structure of the protein surfaces you are exposed to does not change much from generation to generation — hence why a measles vaccination works after a long time, whereas a Covid or flu one doesn’t

Take a look at:

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150521133628.htm

Or here:

discoverysedge.mayo.edu/2021/03/30/researchers-clarify-why-measles-doesnt-evolve-to-escape-immunity/

Thank you @foxgoosefinch, that makes sense.

So having had two jabs this year, then a natural infection, I should have both types of immune cells?

I am genuinely upset at the idea of having a Pfizer/Moderna right now; I was extremely unwell after both AZ jabs particularly the first one. COVID itself was a walk in the park compared to that first jab, which left me bedridden and having to visit hospital a few days later due to unexplained pinprick bruising (possible blood clot). I recognise, of course, that's entirely possible my easy ride with COVID was due to the jabs - although it's impossible to say for sure.

I'm still not well and I have an even bigger section of pinprick bruising that came up after Jab 2 and still hasn't gone away; having blood tests later this week to see if they can determine the issue.

Is it really the case that those AZ jabs now mean fuck all and I need Pfizer/Moderna in addition to my AZ and wild infection antibodies?

The thought of it honestly makes me want to cry. But I also don't want to be irresponsible by delaying another jab if that is 100% definitely a terrible idea.

All the data shows that the booster jab brings up your protection quite substantially - plus Pfizer will give you an additional line of antibody protection along with the AZ and natural immunity. This provides even more potential cross protection against omicron as well as delta. My parents are in the same position, having had 2 x AZ, reasonably mild delta infection and now Pfizer boosters as well.

It’s up to you, but I have to say that all the medics I know had their boosters as soon as they could get hold of them, despite in at least one case having had previous bad side effects to the initial jabs.

OP, how old are you?

I'm 48. I had my two AZ vaccinations in March and July. I had Covid at the end of September.
My booster is booked for next week, but I share your thoughts and feelings exactly.
As I'm "pushing 50" I am only just outside the age category usually prioritised for vaccines, so have booked, but I feel the same as you.

I totally understand. I had the same thought process as you OP. Also had covid in October. In the end I just booked the latest slot I could get in January. I didn't have all your additional concerns. I feel for you.

Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with previous jabs.

I was really tired, brainfoggy and lethargic for a few days after my 2nd Moderna vaccine and was worried that I would feel ill after my booster but I have been totally fine (Pfizer boosted on Saturday - no side effects whatsoever)

It's not possible to predict exactly what any individual will experience, and having had bad luck with your previous AZ jabs isn't particularly a predictor for what might happen with a booster. But what is known is that 2 AZ vaccines really doesn't offer much protection against Omicron but a booster too makes for good protection the science is based on the statistics overall across large numbers of people and on average the best way of beating this is to get as many jabs into as many arms as possible. 100% isn't achievable but you can do your bit by getting all your jabs as soon as possible if you haven't been medically advised not to.

I had covid in October, never even occurred to me to miss my booster. Had it last week.

How on earth can the immune system response to a vaccine be 'much stronger' than the response to an actual infection?
How on earth can the views of a lot of randoms in answer to this question be better and more informed than the views of actual immunologists who have already and repeatedly assured us that this is the case? Is this still the fallout from Gove saying 'We've had enough of experts?' Because if it is that man should be severely punished for talking such shite and should say something that might indicate he now realises it was shite.
What are experts for if we don't trust their learning and expertise?

I am interested in this. I had covid in march and then was double jabbed after. Half my class got covid about a month ago along with the two TAs in my class and any adults who came in to cover. I didn't get it. I did a LFT everyday and had two pcr's. The other adults were double jabbed too but hadnt previously had covid so I assumed it was my prior infection that protected me.