Omg my social media feeds are going crazy!

[november90]

Literally everyone posting about refusing the boosters now after he back and forth with restrictions and the government breaking the rules etc! I can't believe it!
Anyone else seeing the same thing?
I wonder if it is like this in other countries who have reintroduced restrictions etc.



This is not my view btw, I'm happy to take my booster but obviously very annoyed with new restrictions too. So hope my sons Nativity isn't cancelled :(

[MarshaBradyo]

[quote Delatron]@Emilyontmoor what on earth are you on about?

I’m very pro vaccine! I’ve had both doses and and just brought my booster forward.

What a strange post. I’m just interested in the science behind immune response that’s all. As surely this will shape out how this pandemic pans out? Why can’t I ask questions about t-cells without being accused of being anti-vax?

Honestly this board gets stranger and more aggressive by the day! I was actually enjoying your posts about the antibody studies.[/quote]
I’m pro vaccine too and think it’s worth asking about

[Delatron]

At a basic level we can’t make any conclusions on long term immunity can we? Because this virus has only been around for 2 years. So the reason for the 6 months revised to 9 then to 12 is because that’s the time from infection/vaccine.

Much like only recently we could conclude t-cells from SARS lasted 17 years. Because that’s how long ago SARS was.

So is it inaccurate to say antibodies only last 6 months? Are we only claiming that because that’s the time frame we’re working from? And we know antibodies wane but t-cells less so. We also know that some people produce t-cells then fight off the virus without even producing antibodies. Yet still they have protection.

People should be able to discuss immunity (from both vaccine and natural infection) without being accused of being anti-vax.

[Emilyontmoor]

Delatron apologies but following on from the previous post I have seen so many of these claims that T cells are being ignored by scientists but confer lasting immunity to Covid on people (including from a retired GP friend!) Why would scientists as some sort of homogenous whole be conspiring to ignore T cells (though they have been testing for them throughout the pandemic) … In fact why would Scientists as some sort of homogenous whole be conspiring to promote or fight any political agenda?

Anyway I agree that it is really interesting. Scientists in Asia have been investigating whether having had SARS bestows any immunity to Covid since the start of the pandemic. I suppose it is bias as it would be good for their communities and what they went through in 2003 if it did. However this is the first time they have found it does. It would also be nice if it turns out that a particularly bleak weekend in a filthy polluted Chinese city nursing a family member turns out to have saved us all 17 years later!

[Delatron]

@Emilyontmoor yes that was the part I found most fascinating. Whether SARS exposure could infer some immunity to COVID. I remember reading something similar a while ago.

Also some people had a similar Coronavirus and that gives a bit of protection.

Obviously vaccines are hugely vital but I would find things slightly less bleak if we could assertion if t-cells from either vaccine or previous infection are longer lasting.

[MousesBack]

The more people that refuse the booster, the more restrictions we're likely to end up with and for longer.
Maybe you need to get yourself some new friends with brains?

[Beachcomber]

@Emilyontmoor

Of course scientists don't deal in certainty. Which is why I'm not "demanding certainty" because that would be idiotic.

I already linked to this which pretty much sums up my position.

www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00676-9/fulltext

I guess I will consider the science comprehensive once there is a general consensus in the scientific community that it is.

As to why I would decline a covid vaccine. Well I try to avoid medical products if I don't need them . And with the news about Omicron I'm not convinced that my being vaccinated protects others more than my having covid does. Plus all my close family have had covid, everyone I work with is either vaccinated or recovered (small team) and I live in a country where we have to wear maks, socially distance, have covid passes, etc.

Also on the 6 months thing post infection, Switzerland has recently changed their policy to 12 months. So I'm not sure that there is "consensus" yet. Of course the situation is new and evolving so that's to be expected.

[ollyollyoxenfree]

Also on the 6 months thing post infection, Switzerland has recently changed their policy to 12 months. So I'm not sure that there is "consensus" yet

It's a little disengenous for posters to keep suggesting that Ireland/Switzerland or other countries who accept a previous infection as a part of their green pass don't recommend vaccination after infection. As far as I'm aware nowhere has this recommendation.

For example, switzerland:
I have recovered from COVID. Should I get vaccinated?

The vaccination is also recommended if you have recovered from COVID. You are protected from renewed infection for a certain period of time, but it is not clear how long for. You are better protected against a renewed infection if you are vaccinated. We therefore recommend that you have the vaccination within three months of infection to give you long-term protection.

Was the infection more than three months ago?
If so, you should get vaccinated as soon as possible.

www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home/krankheiten/ausbrueche-epidemien-pandemien/aktuelle-ausbrueche-epidemien/novel-cov/impfen.html#-995735508

[CallMeNutribullet]

I'm booked in for my booster but I'm wondering if the long term plan is to give everyone a booster every 6 months? The cost of this must be astronomical.

[Tealightsandd]

@CallMeNutribullet

I'm booked in for my booster but I'm wondering if the long term plan is to give everyone a booster every 6 months? The cost of this must be astronomical.

Yes. It would've been cheaper to never have let it become a pandemic in the first place (therefore never needing vaccines). Worth taking note for the next time.

Whole world should've enacted pandemic border control for a couple of months - truly essential travel only with real quarantine where necessary, plus isolate & manage the people already infected.

In fact this approach would still possibly be the cheapest approach. Particularly when you take into account Long Covid and costs of treating delayed diagnosis non Covid illnesses (due to full hospitals and ill staff). Shame it won't happen.

Regardless, it's highly unlikely to be jabs every 6 months forever more. Particularly if we...you know...reduce the transmission (which limits opportunity for mutation).

In the future we'll have a bigger, better arsenal to fight SARS-COV-2. More knowledge, more of the world vaccinated, and more availability of the drug treatments - antivirals, and (particularly helpful) the monoclonal antibodies.

[Beachcomber]

[quote ollyollyoxenfree]Also on the 6 months thing post infection, Switzerland has recently changed their policy to 12 months. So I'm not sure that there is "consensus" yet

It's a little disengenous for posters to keep suggesting that Ireland/Switzerland or other countries who accept a previous infection as a part of their green pass don't recommend vaccination after infection. As far as I'm aware nowhere has this recommendation.

For example, switzerland:
I have recovered from COVID. Should I get vaccinated?

The vaccination is also recommended if you have recovered from COVID. You are protected from renewed infection for a certain period of time, but it is not clear how long for. You are better protected against a renewed infection if you are vaccinated. We therefore recommend that you have the vaccination within three months of infection to give you long-term protection.

Was the infection more than three months ago?
If so, you should get vaccinated as soon as possible.

www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home/krankheiten/ausbrueche-epidemien-pandemien/aktuelle-ausbrueche-epidemien/novel-cov/impfen.html#-995735508[/quote]
Are you familiar with Switzerland or Swiss culture?

I have always lived on the French side but I have worked in Switzerland and I know a lot of Swiss people. They have a really interesting culture and political system.

But they are not risk takers. They are very pragmatic. So I'm not surprised that they have come to a very pragmatic middle ground of recommending vaccination for recovered persons whilst leaving an element flexibility which reflects the ongoing science around natural immunity.

[ollyollyoxenfree]

@Beachcomber

As I said - this isn't a position unique to Switzerland due to their culture.

There isn't a single country or public health body that recommends someone does not need to be vaccinated after infection.

[howdiditcometothis666]

@Delatron T cells are not affected by the Omicron variant which is why the presumption is that 2 doses will still protect you from serious illness

[Delatron]

Great news @howdiditcometothis666

[howdiditcometothis666]

@deaatron It's great because that also will include natural immunity T cells and the hysteria inducing headlines "AZ gives you no immunity" look like total BS

[Delatron]

I wonder if when they say we have zero antibodies 6 months after vaccination they include t-cells in that? I’m very pro vaccine but it would be nice not to have to get a booster every 6 months. Also it would make for a less bleak picture!

[Delatron]

Crossed post @howdiditcometothis666 yes I don’t know why this is all not being considered.

Zero protection doesn’t make sense when we know it’s not all about antibodies l.

[howdiditcometothis666]

It is on the Pfizer press release but for some reason everybody seems to be ignoring it

[Delatron]

Funny that!

[milkyaqua]

@Delatron

I wonder if when they say we have zero antibodies 6 months after vaccination they include t-cells in that? I’m very pro vaccine but it would be nice not to have to get a booster every 6 months. Also it would make for a less bleak picture!

The next generation of vaccines, scientists hope, will not only be a good match to circulating strains but provide far broader immune protection so that they are effective against mutations. One possibility is a vaccine specifically designed to trigger a T-cell response to the viral replication machinery as opposed to the spike protein, which scientists have suggested could result in immunity lasting years rather than months.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/12/what-makes-boosters-more-effective-than-the-first-two-covid-jabs

[gogohm]

Everyone I know has been boosted as soon as eligible. I'm guessing I know different kinds of people, responsible ones