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Some perspective…

61 replies

Awakened22 · 03/12/2021 19:46

I feel like we need some perspective of what’s going on at the moment.

All data from the Office for National Statistics Covid website.

Cases have risen 1% in the last week….but the number of tests has also risen by 5%. Generally the more we test the more cases we’ll find.

The number of daily hospital admissions dropped over the course of November to 6.49 per 100,000 people. For context this was 15.6 per 100,000 at the end of November 2020.

It is the elderly driving hospital admissions and not the young. Under 24’s are being admitted at a rate of 1.96 per 100,000 and over 75’s 48.92 per 100,000. The rate for over 75’s has reduced by about 55% since February. There’s also virtually zero patients in hospital with “normal” flu.

Deaths with Covid have dropped by 5% in the last week.

Vaccinating the elderly, vulnerable and those with underlying health conditions has absolutely been successful in reducing the chance of them becoming seriously ill and dying. Lockdown’s protected them before the vaccine and the vaccines and boosters are protecting them now.

Trying to vaccinate the entire country and the world will not stop Covid. The vaccines are not sterilizing - they do not prevent infection and transmission. They may help to reduce it but their primary function is to prevent those at higher risk becoming seriously ill. There has never been a vaccine for a respiratory virus that prevents infection (please let me know if I’ve missed any!).

Coronavirus’ mutate rapidly. Given there is no way the earth’s population can all be successfully vaccinated at the same time - by the time we finish, the vaccines efficacy will have reduced in those we started with -
there will be variants, there will be mutations and we will continue to have cases. And that’s before we worry about trying to vaccinate animals as they also carry the virus. What we can hope for is that it will mutate into the equivalent of the common cold.

Given we have a vaccine to protect the vulnerable, vaccination should be about personal risk and benefit. As a 34 year old with no underlying health conditions and a healthy BMI, my chance of catching and dying of covid is 0.0001% (QCovid Risk Calculator). Based on MHRA yellow card data (and yes, I know there’s arguments about the accuracy but that’s the only data source I know of), the possibility of an adverse reaction is somewhere between 0.2-0.9% and possibility of dying 0.001% - ten times higher than my chance of dying from Covid. Now if we took smallpox (we can’t have a covid thread without mentioning it), my chance of dying from catching it would be about 30% and the chance of dying from the vaccine 1%. With odds like that, no-one would need to talk about mandates or passports.

So what do I think we should do? Be grateful that we have a vaccine which people are able to make a personal decision on whether to take and which significantly reduces the chance of serious illness and death for the vulnerable and high risk. Be grateful that the virus poses very little threat to the young and healthy. Rather than trying to out vaccinate a respiratory virus, which will continue to mutate, use our doctors and nurses time/resources to have face to face appointments to ensure people with health conditions are getting diagnosed, the right treatments and the right support. Prioritise vaccines globally for those who are at higher risk before we worry about our young and healthy. Do everything we can to lead a healthy lifestyle - lose weight, get outside in the fresh air, exercise, eat well. This will help the NHS both short term and long term.

Finally, debate is good and science wouldn’t be science without challenge or scrutiny. Division and name calling because someone has a different opinion, is vaccine hesitant or has a different perception of risk is unnecessary . Let’s focus on love, hope and what we can be grateful for.

OP posts:
Sassenach85 · 04/12/2021 07:36

Thank you for this OP

We need more of this

I haven’t posted for a very long time due to the hysteria on this site and I think it’s time to speak up. The world we live in feels increasingly like a bad joke.

People need a shake and to wake up!

bumbleymummy · 04/12/2021 07:41

Great post. It’s good to see so many others agreeing with you too.

FflosFfantastig · 04/12/2021 07:50

@Awakened22 what a refreshing post to read. Thank you. We need to take collective deep breaths I think (2m apart obviously).

Misspacorabanne · 04/12/2021 08:00

@SoOvethis I did read that earlier!
So when was omicron first detected now? 15th of November? Surely we would expect deaths now from the earlier cases, and it's good news that there hasn't yet been any, or am I just being too optimistic and it's still too early?

InCahootswithOrwell · 04/12/2021 08:48

[quote Misspacorabanne]@SoOvethis I did read that earlier!
So when was omicron first detected now? 15th of November? Surely we would expect deaths now from the earlier cases, and it's good news that there hasn't yet been any, or am I just being too optimistic and it's still too early?[/quote]
Unfortunately, it’s a bit early to tell. And it sort of depends on the type of population the variant is currently spreading in. If it’s spreading in younger vaccinated populations, then you might need a lot more people infected before you get enough deaths to compare with previous strains.

What does seem to be clear from SA health authorities reports is that hospitalisations are rising quickly in the omicron affected areas and they have identified a particular problem in children under 4 who seem to be making up an alarming proportion of admissions.

Misspacorabanne · 04/12/2021 08:51

@InCahootswithOrwell thank you.

InCahootswithOrwell · 04/12/2021 09:08

It’s worth keeping an eye on those paeds admissions. It might turn out to be background noise that reflects the age of the population being infected, but if it isn’t then the U.K. may be in trouble.

If it turns out that vaccination does protect against severe disease the fact that we are way behind other areas on approving the jab for 5-11 year olds, the decision making by the jcvi and cmo to not jab 12-15year olds and then only partially vaccinate them with next to no effective mitigations in schools is going to work against us.

LivinLaVidaLoki · 04/12/2021 13:14

Thank you OP

MarshaBradyo · 04/12/2021 13:24

You make some good points op

I’ve also been thinking about the often used phrase ‘we are not safe until everyone is safe’ and the reality of trying to vaccinate the world ahead of a virus that mutated like this.

It seems easy to say but harder in practise.

MarshaBradyo · 04/12/2021 13:26

I will add though I’m very pro vaccine and see it as a way out of the pressing on going crisis - but it’s the phrase that needs more thought.

Awakened22 · 04/12/2021 13:31

@RunnerDown

I used QCovid to calculate my Covid risk - this was developed by Oxford University, is peer reviewed and used by the NHS: digital.nhs.uk/coronavirus/risk-assessment
My results from this are:

  • Risk of catching Covid and being admitted to hospital 0.0260%
  • Risk of catching and dying from Covid 0.0001%

Unfortunately it doesn’t tell me what my chances are of catching Covid and then suffering from long Covid are.

In terms of vaccine adverse impact I looked at the MHRA Yellow Card data which is a government database. www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions
This shows there are been 141,612,664 vaccine doses. There are 1815 reported deaths - 0.001%. There have been 319,378 adverse reports - 0.23% and 1,298,826 adverse events - 0.9%.

As you say, this may include people who have a sore arm, although I’m not sure how many people would bother reporting that. There will also be people who don’t know about the yellow card reporting system or don’t report adverse reactions but it’s the only data we have. It also doesn’t split the reactions into age category or underlying health conditions so its use is limited - but slightly better than hearsay.

In terms of measles, the virus behaves in a completely different way to covid or flu so I don’t think we can use it as a comparator. It is much slower at replicating/mutating allowing vaccination to prevent infection for a much longer period of time.

If we take the flu jab, even in bad flu years, I’ve never seen mass wider community vaccination pushed or offered for free. Encouraged, yes but nothing more. Last year, the flu jab uptake was only 53% in clinical risk groups for under 65’s and was 80% for over 65’s. The stats aren’t clear for non-clinical risk groups but it appears to be around 22% uptake. This has previously been accepted in doing enough to protect the vulnerable even though it doesn’t eliminate cases and deaths.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996033/Annual-Report_SeasonalFlu-Vaccine_GPs_2020_to_2021.pdf
And yes, I know Covid is different to flu but there are also similarities.

You are right that this is complex and experts around the world disagree on the “best” approach. Even within the UK we have seen different responses and restrictions. I’m sure even in the future with the power of hindsight there will still be disagreements about what was right or wrong.

My views may be somewhat naive (is that not the case for everyone on here?!) but I will continue to look at actual data rather than sensational headlines and read from a range of doctors, virologists and statisticians.

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