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Covid

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Some perspective…

61 replies

Awakened22 · 03/12/2021 19:46

I feel like we need some perspective of what’s going on at the moment.

All data from the Office for National Statistics Covid website.

Cases have risen 1% in the last week….but the number of tests has also risen by 5%. Generally the more we test the more cases we’ll find.

The number of daily hospital admissions dropped over the course of November to 6.49 per 100,000 people. For context this was 15.6 per 100,000 at the end of November 2020.

It is the elderly driving hospital admissions and not the young. Under 24’s are being admitted at a rate of 1.96 per 100,000 and over 75’s 48.92 per 100,000. The rate for over 75’s has reduced by about 55% since February. There’s also virtually zero patients in hospital with “normal” flu.

Deaths with Covid have dropped by 5% in the last week.

Vaccinating the elderly, vulnerable and those with underlying health conditions has absolutely been successful in reducing the chance of them becoming seriously ill and dying. Lockdown’s protected them before the vaccine and the vaccines and boosters are protecting them now.

Trying to vaccinate the entire country and the world will not stop Covid. The vaccines are not sterilizing - they do not prevent infection and transmission. They may help to reduce it but their primary function is to prevent those at higher risk becoming seriously ill. There has never been a vaccine for a respiratory virus that prevents infection (please let me know if I’ve missed any!).

Coronavirus’ mutate rapidly. Given there is no way the earth’s population can all be successfully vaccinated at the same time - by the time we finish, the vaccines efficacy will have reduced in those we started with -
there will be variants, there will be mutations and we will continue to have cases. And that’s before we worry about trying to vaccinate animals as they also carry the virus. What we can hope for is that it will mutate into the equivalent of the common cold.

Given we have a vaccine to protect the vulnerable, vaccination should be about personal risk and benefit. As a 34 year old with no underlying health conditions and a healthy BMI, my chance of catching and dying of covid is 0.0001% (QCovid Risk Calculator). Based on MHRA yellow card data (and yes, I know there’s arguments about the accuracy but that’s the only data source I know of), the possibility of an adverse reaction is somewhere between 0.2-0.9% and possibility of dying 0.001% - ten times higher than my chance of dying from Covid. Now if we took smallpox (we can’t have a covid thread without mentioning it), my chance of dying from catching it would be about 30% and the chance of dying from the vaccine 1%. With odds like that, no-one would need to talk about mandates or passports.

So what do I think we should do? Be grateful that we have a vaccine which people are able to make a personal decision on whether to take and which significantly reduces the chance of serious illness and death for the vulnerable and high risk. Be grateful that the virus poses very little threat to the young and healthy. Rather than trying to out vaccinate a respiratory virus, which will continue to mutate, use our doctors and nurses time/resources to have face to face appointments to ensure people with health conditions are getting diagnosed, the right treatments and the right support. Prioritise vaccines globally for those who are at higher risk before we worry about our young and healthy. Do everything we can to lead a healthy lifestyle - lose weight, get outside in the fresh air, exercise, eat well. This will help the NHS both short term and long term.

Finally, debate is good and science wouldn’t be science without challenge or scrutiny. Division and name calling because someone has a different opinion, is vaccine hesitant or has a different perception of risk is unnecessary . Let’s focus on love, hope and what we can be grateful for.

OP posts:
julieca · 03/12/2021 22:40

I think lots of people have been scared about social media posts about lots of toddlers in hospital because of the variant in South Africa. I suspect they are false, but I understand why they scare people.

InCahootswithOrwell · 03/12/2021 22:43

back on the topic of post viral fatigue - as someone who has worked in the NHS, I can assure you that a good diet, and ensuring you have a more than ample supply of vitamins and nutrients can often combat this effectively, and bring good results in a relatively short period of time.

As someone who works in the NHS I’m sure you will also be aware that long covid is not just post viral fatigue although that can be part of it.
As well as being aware that, while not proven, there are studies showing physiological changes in various organs/organ systems after even mild covid infection.
Covid-19 still remains a novel disease that we don’t yet know the long term outcomes for and probably won’t for a while.

And yes, OP, the NHS has been under pressure before, but this is a fairly unprecedented level of pressure over a sustained period of time. Do not be fooled by people who tell you that this is normal for the nhs every winter.

IncessantNameChanger · 03/12/2021 22:48

I'm not personally scared of covid ( because I have had it once). In fact i would rather catch the new variants rather than keep on having endless boosters.

But I'm scared of lockdown and all that comes with it. So that's make me twitchy about covid. I do feel a bit worried because none of the adults I love dearly have had it, and no one knows for sure who it will finish off.

But yes I could catch it again tomorrow for all I care at a personal level.

julieca · 03/12/2021 22:49

My DP was really tired after getting covid, but it did get better after six weeks. The GP said they see a lot of people with this, but generally it gets better. But he is self employed and earned a lot less money during this time as a result.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 03/12/2021 22:50

Covid continues to be a mild illness for most who catch it.

Awakened22 · 03/12/2021 22:54

@InCahootswithOrwell thank you for your thoughts and everything you do as part of the nhs. Do you think the government should have kept the nightingale hospitals open longer or done more to increase capacity over the last 18 months?

OP posts:
julieca · 03/12/2021 22:54

Yes true, but if that was the whole picture we would never lockdown at all.

DerTrotzkopf · 03/12/2021 23:02

I think quite a few folk, fit, healthy etc have been frighteningly ill with covid. Even if not hospitalised, very very ill, the sickest they've ever been. Many have been inexplicably left with a life changing condition like Long Covid, completely incapacitated by it. Some have had mild disease but subsequently develop other issues like myocarditis, autoimmune conditions etc. Read some of the posts on the main long covid facebook pages and you'll see. So when you say that people need to to essentially toughen up maybe empathise a little ? I for one do not want to catch it again. This week last year I was so ill with covid, most frightening episode in my life tbh. I am 80-90% improved but still not there. Future plans in tatters. I've no issue with people living their lives to the full but equally those people need to walk in our shoes.

DerTrotzkopf · 03/12/2021 23:10

@Meshabubu I also currently work in the NHS (clinical). So some vitamins and minerals would have sorted out the POTS that I developed post covid, completely out of the blue ? Many LC sufferers are already taking numerous vitamins like niacin, quercetin, anti histamines and PPIs to dampen down the inflammatory response taking place in our bodies. Many of us are now on beta blockers for example or meds like gabapentin to counter horrendous nerve pain. Please do some basic research before you start spouting off.

6Pounds50 · 03/12/2021 23:11

@DerTrotzkopf

I think quite a few folk, fit, healthy etc have been frighteningly ill with covid. Even if not hospitalised, very very ill, the sickest they've ever been. Many have been inexplicably left with a life changing condition like Long Covid, completely incapacitated by it. Some have had mild disease but subsequently develop other issues like myocarditis, autoimmune conditions etc. Read some of the posts on the main long covid facebook pages and you'll see. So when you say that people need to to essentially toughen up maybe empathise a little ? I for one do not want to catch it again. This week last year I was so ill with covid, most frightening episode in my life tbh. I am 80-90% improved but still not there. Future plans in tatters. I've no issue with people living their lives to the full but equally those people need to walk in our shoes.
Sorry you went through/still going through that.

I think most people do empathise. It sounds absolutely awful. I think at the moment though people do need a bit of perspective in that the vaccine is doing it’s job and less people are affected to the point you were. There seems to be a lot of panic at the moment.

julieca · 03/12/2021 23:14

I had "mild" covid symptoms medically. I was not hospitalised and not at risk of being so. But I was pretty ill and had two weeks off sick. I don't want to have that length of time off sick again.

Wizzbangfizz · 03/12/2021 23:16

Applause to you OP - so sick of seeing the hospitality industry decimated yet again, and let's be clear the elites will still be partying just like they did last year it would seem. It's about time people woke up.

julieca · 03/12/2021 23:18

Yes the elites will be partying I agree. I wonder if Johnson will end up in hospital again.

NovemberNovemberDarkNights · 03/12/2021 23:19

@nordica

It's not about the risk of dying but about the risk of needing hospital treatment and how that affects the health service as a whole. If you have lots of cases, then there will be a significant number of people still needing hospital treatment, and that leads to other cancelled treatments and operations, longer waiting times and so on... The point has never been to protect any individual person but to ensure the NHS still has the resources to treat any of us at any time we may need it (for non-covid things).
Yes, I can't believe this still needs explaining this far on!
Wizzbangfizz · 03/12/2021 23:20

@DerTrotzkopf I'm not dismissing your experience but in mine I had it about 6 weeks ago along with DC2 - said child had zero symptoms, I lost taste and smell and was quite tired. Friend has it, she has what she would describe as a bad head cold - still at work. BIL had it (pre vaccine) was in bed poorly for 3 days off work a week - comparative of flu. I'm not trying to Make any point but the fact is in the majority of cases it is a mild illness.

6Pounds50 · 03/12/2021 23:21

@Wizzbangfizz

Applause to you OP - so sick of seeing the hospitality industry decimated yet again, and let's be clear the elites will still be partying just like they did last year it would seem. It's about time people woke up.
Agree. This is like some sort of fever dream. Boris shaking hands with positive patients, barnard castle, Matt Hancock, secret parties.

Theyre laughing at the lot that are vehemently asking for another lockdown. Hysteria!

Mojoj · 03/12/2021 23:23

Completely agree. In particular about encouraging people to take responsibility for improving their immune systems by eating well and exercising. Mass panic and endless vaccines are not the answer.

DerTrotzkopf · 04/12/2021 00:19

@Mojoj see funnily enough the OH nurse at my NHS trust said that many many of the long covid sufferers she was dealing with were actually pretty physically fit. Runners (like myself), cyclists, etc. She intended contacting NHS England to see if other trusts had the same experience. Funnily enough research suggests the likelihood of developing serious disease is now thought to be genetic rather than a load of couch potatoes not taking care of themselves although I agree many ICU patients were obese.

RunnerDown · 04/12/2021 00:29

I think many of your presumptions are naive. Vaccines are not just about protecting the most vulnerable although that’s an important part of it. For the most vulnerable to be protected adequately there needs to be a high level of vaccination in the wider community . There is some evidence that vaccinations did reduce transmission against the delta variant although unfortunately there was also waning of protections. Boosters help this .The more we can do reduce transmission the less the virus can circulate which helps us all, and reduces the strain on the NHS. High levels of circulating virus promotes the development of new variants. For vaccines to be most beneficial we need to get as close as possible to herd immunity. This need much higher vaccination levels than we have currently and is why some countries are moving to mandatory vaccination. I would be very happy if that happened here but I totally appreciate there are huge ethical issues around that.
Vaccines have been helpful in the past . Measles is a respiratory virus with some devastating long term consequences. It may not have been eliminated by vaccines but it has been controlled .
I would be interested in evidence that supports your figures about risk of vaccination versus risk of covid. Adverse reactions from the vaccines may be something very minor like a sore arm . Claims should be backed by evidence . Sometimes vaccination is not just about personal risk. It is about the community as a whole. If the NHS is overwhelmed it impacts on all other services for everyone.
Long covid is a risk even for younger patients .
The number of patients with covid in hospital impacts on beds in many ways. Patients have to be isolated so this can reduce the number of other available beds. The length of icu stays for patients with covid is much longe4 than average length of stay in ICU beds so although number of beds being used may not be high those beds are unavailable to other patients for a longer period of time. Overall hospital length of stay might be longer. So it’s much more complicated than simply numbers of patients and lengths of stays . The ONS report also says that the highest ICU bed use is patients in their fifties .
The whole situation is incredibly complex. The worry about a new variant with some immune escape and increased transmissibility has to be taken seriously. It will impact quickly and significantly over the next 3 months. Healthy lifestyles and vitamins are important but will have absolutely no impact on this situation in that time scale.
Many virologists and indeed the WHO are keen for vaccinations to be rolled out across the world to all ages and as quickly as possible, including boosters . I suspect they have a far deeper understanding than anyone on this forum of the best way to try to manage the pandemic.
You say we can’t “ outvaccinate” this virus. Hospital admissions and deaths were far higher in earlier waves prior to vaccination. If we don’t try to vaccinate everyone what to we do. The virus won’t disappear so how will NHS staff suddenly have the resources to concentrate on non covid issues.

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 04/12/2021 00:42

I'm not slightly concerned at the moment about all new variant stuff and illness. I've concerned that it might cancel my Xmas skiing holiday. Probably this post will come back to bite me on the arse.

Pyewackect · 04/12/2021 00:58

Might help to fund the NHS to be fair but we are stuck with the Tories so no hope there.

Outside of the usual Budget or Spending Review process, the government announced around £12 billion of additional spending for the Department of Health and Social Care for each year between 2022−23 and 2024−25.

It is also worth noting that even without any top up, health spending is set to account for an ever-growing share of total day-to-day public service spending: 44% by 2024−25, up from 42% in 2019−20. At that rate the NHS will represent half of all government spending and you still don't think that's enough ?.

I work for the NHS so I know the challenges but there comes a point where other departmenst will be starved of funding. That or Tax will have to increase, how about VAT at 25% on 5p on income tax. And don't give me that old bollocks about taxing the rich because high income earners bear a higher burden of tax than anybody.

Dishhh · 04/12/2021 05:49

@Mojoj

Completely agree. In particular about encouraging people to take responsibility for improving their immune systems by eating well and exercising. Mass panic and endless vaccines are not the answer.

Not the answer for an incredibly infectious respiratory virus that spreads exponentially? You believe vaccines aren't part of the answer here?

SoOvethis · 04/12/2021 06:08

WHO has said there is no reported death from the new variant as of yet.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/04/who-says-no-deaths-reported-from-omicron-yet-as-covid-variant-spreads

walksen · 04/12/2021 06:17

"People have lost the plot. It’s like we are back in March 2020 when we knew nothing of covid. People are acting like we’ll all drop dead from omicron. It’s baffling"

Sorry but this is hysterical nonsense. I don't know anyone who is petrified of dropping dead of omicron. People I know of most ages are going about their routines. Some might be more diligent about masks or lft use maybe. My main concern would be for the NHS staff who've been hammered relentlessly since freedom day and it's likely to get worse.

Lots of posts here from people who apparently feel superior by telling themselves they are being rational while all the sheeple are cowering in fear etc. It's pitiful stuff.

milkyaqua · 04/12/2021 06:29

It is odd. It seems the more misinformed the poster is, the more superior they feel.