Will the new close contact rules have opposite effect to intended?

[Greentrees2021]

Apologies if this has already been discussed somewhere.

I was just thinking if I got mild Covid symptoms now (other than the main 3) I would take a LFT and, if positive, I would now think twice about doing a comfirmatory PCR where I wouldn't have before. I would of course isolate off the back of the positive LFT, but if I went for the PCR there's a chance it called be Omicron which could then force my children and a whole bunch of my double/triple vaccinated family and friends into 10 days unnecessary isolation before Christmas.

If other people thought this same way actually, actually this strict new rule of the Government's could backfire in making people less likely to do PCR test and making it harder to track and analyse Omicron.

Am I missing something? What do you think? Is this a risk?

@GodIsAVegan Also there is no exception for people who have recently had Covid so those who only had it a few weeks ago would have to isolate again. This definitely seems unnecessary.

[quote Greentrees2021]@GodIsAVegan Also there is no exception for people who have recently had Covid so those who only had it a few weeks ago would have to isolate again. This definitely seems unnecessary.[/quote]
Does this suggest a fear that recent infection with e.g. Delta does not prevent infection with Omicron?

It's certainly going to deter some people, yes.

I won't bother with a PCR either. Too much hassle. I absolutely would steer clear and self isolate. I live alone so no implications for anyone else. I'd still need to walk my dog though (very early am), as this is less risky than someone else turning up at the house to walk him. I live in a place where it's easy to stay away from other people. I've always got plenty of food in.

What is the current definition of close contact?

We all had COVID last year and I felt so ill that I couldn't even answer the phone to T&T. They were phoning every 15 minutes for days, I just put my phone on silent. Job done.

I filled in the form immediately. T and T still rang me about four times and sent me texts. I fell ill with covid on 4 November.

I got the impression there will be an initial look a) could be Omicron b) nah, not Omicron in the lab and then sent for full sequencing if a, rather than just a random assortment being sent for sequencing?

I'm not entirely sure whether it's a separate test or not, but it seems possible that specific diagnostic primers could be used to detect the S-gene dropout alone rather than sequencing the entire sample (although you'd still need some other identifying sequence to confirm it's actually SARS-COV-2 and not some other completely different virus, because if you only used that you could end up with a sample showing nothing and that doesn't prove it's SARS-COV-2):

S-gene dropout is due to one of the mutations in the VOC, a two codon deletion at positions 69 and 70 of the Spike protein. This mutation, not widely present in other SARS-CoV-2 variants circulating in the UK, causes diagnostic primers targeting this region of the spike protein to fail. To identify SARS CoV-2 infection a PCR test targets several parts of the viral genome, and some diagnostic tests include a target in the S-gene as one of several used in the test.

I wonder if you caught Omicrom and discovered the person infected felt the same way you did?
That they knowingly didn’t ring the Covid line and took a PCR test?

Are you going to avoid all people incase you might be a close contact?

Only basing it on my experience to date. My kids have had multiple 10 day isolations due to cases in their bubbles (before the rules changed) and never caught Covid any of those times so with hindsight those isolations were unnecessary.

My kids did too. But this is a new variant and I think until we know, it’s best that we’re over cautious. We can’t know if the isolations will be unnecessary until there’s more data. If it turns out that the new variant is more dangerous, avoiding PCRs could cause more spread and an overwhelmed NHS.

So you would prefer your kids and other family/friends spread it around to lots of other families just before Christmas instead? But as long as your Christmas plans are not affected it's fine... 😒

People who are financially hit by isolation I can somewhat understand but what you describe just sounds selfish.

YABU

I'd need to be signed off work if I was isolating without a test result, so wouldn't work for me anyway. Even if it's just cold symptoms, I have to take a PCR for one of my jobs (comes under health and social).

I've had cold symptoms this week so have had to do a PCR, but to be honest I think it's more important to keep people safe until we know more. Also, depends on how you're living your life, I guess and how many people you have contact with. I'm masked all day in one job, can easily keep away from colleagues in second job. I wear a mask when out anyway. I've had a quiet week, but most things I'm doing, I'm doing carefully, ie met a friend for coffee distanced on a bench, exercise class we're 3m apart and instructor still has us very much working on the spot. Only person I've been close to is DH, so as I do things carefully it shouldn't impact too many.

Agreed. If I had a positive LFT at this point I'd isolate myself, and inform my close contacts so that they were aware and could take tests/precautions. I wouldn't get a PCR - I'd already know I had Covid and would be taking the appropriate action. I'd have no wish to be hounded by T&T.

I won't be a close contact of anyone apart from DH, I don't see anyone else that closely, shops and stuff like that is not close contacts though that is where I would most likely catch it

How will it work for packed pubs etc. They are making out its some fail proof plan but if you are in a busy pub Saturday and test positive say Monday it's not like you can trace all those people.

As it always was, this is split between people who'd love an excuse for a couple of paid weeks of work and those for whom 2 weeks out of work is a disaster

@BluebellsGreenbells

I wonder if you caught Omicrom and discovered the person infected felt the same way you did? That they knowingly didn’t ring the Covid line and took a PCR test?

Are you going to avoid all people incase you might be a close contact?

That would be fine with me

Last week I got a PCR because the app pinged to say I’d been in contact with a Covid case. This week I wouldn’t, because even if the PCR was clear I could still be told to isolate for 10 days. That means I can’t look after my elderly parents and can’t take DC to school and nursery, and I’d have the burden of sole childcare at home for 10 days so would be unable to work. Frankly I can do without that when I’m not even sick! And I’ve now turned the app off too, to avoid being told to isolate when I’m not sick.

@CrunchyCarrot

I got the impression there will be an initial look a) could be Omicron b) nah, not Omicron in the lab and then sent for full sequencing if a, rather than just a random assortment being sent for sequencing?

I'm not entirely sure whether it's a separate test or not, but it seems possible that specific diagnostic primers could be used to detect the S-gene dropout alone rather than sequencing the entire sample (although you'd still need some other identifying sequence to confirm it's actually SARS-COV-2 and not some other completely different virus, because if you only used that you could end up with a sample showing nothing and that doesn't prove it's SARS-COV-2):

S-gene dropout is due to one of the mutations in the VOC, a two codon deletion at positions 69 and 70 of the Spike protein. This mutation, not widely present in other SARS-CoV-2 variants circulating in the UK, causes diagnostic primers targeting this region of the spike protein to fail. To identify SARS CoV-2 infection a PCR test targets several parts of the viral genome, and some diagnostic tests include a target in the S-gene as one of several used in the test.

This appeared on my twitter and I just saw it now - about the 'S gene dropout' and explains how it gets picked up?

twitter.com/_nickdavies/status/1466204363110633476

It’s cynical OP and pretty selfish. No wonder we get so much spread if that’s how people think.

But I don’t blame you - I think the government could have done so much more to reduce the inconvenience of having to test and isolate.

Testing takes too long, and it’s a ball ache to get a test in the first place. Our test centres are mobile ones so you never know if it’s there and on some days they’ve packed up and gone home despite booking 😩😨 so we use postal ones as that’s easier but that’s at least 48 hours of waiting.

I’m lost. Why have you decided that 10 days isolation for close contacts of someone with the new variant is unnecessary when public health officials and experts think it is necessary?

Does this suggest a fear that recent infection with e.g. Delta does not prevent infection with Omicron?

...but until (iirc) August close contacts and family members had to isolate for 10 days. There have never been any exceptions for people who've recently had it.
So if family member 1 had it on day 1 and family member 2 got it on day 2 they would each isolate for 10 days from start of symptoms but if family member 3 got it on day 15 for example, family members 1 and 2 would have still been required to isolate again.

@Gearedtoyou

As it always was, this is split between people who'd love an excuse for a couple of paid weeks of work and those for whom 2 weeks out of work is a disaster

Pretty much.

@toomuchlaundry

How would you feel if you got COVID over Christmas because a close contact hadn’t bothered isolating?

This yep.

You selfishly could/mostly put so many other people's festivities at risk.

But you're alright jack so not to worry eh?