Should schools close again?

[FuckinGoddess]

I’m at the end of my tether.

Worried about Omicron, of course, and the devastating effects it could have on lives.

Worried about children missing out on even more education. Worried about being forced to stay at home again. And worried about people dying.

What do you think will happen? What should happen ?

@Beechwood

Schools open to provide childcare or a quality education. Which are you most wanting?

If it is a quality education, kids aren't getting that now, just the DfE are sitting very quietly on the returned data.

I work across schools. I have schools with more than 55% of staff ill with COVID. One school has COVID positive cases in every class, up to 75% of kids in some. No supply available or a different supply each day. TA's holding classes together, leaders taking classes, teachers teaching remotely from corridors to cover three classes at once. Lots of 'time outside'.
Kids are absent and missing their education, return then struggle due to long COVID and are off again.

Schools are 'open' but don't kid yourself that there is a good quality of continuous education happening.

(I also have three teachers in their 30's who have lost their whole career to long COVID and two deaths, staff leaving in droves, including head teachers and governors. Teaching assistant jobs we just can't fill, and in a time of real need, masses of cleaning job vacancies too).
The education system is a mess.

So what's the quality education option if schools are shut?? And if they are shut when we aren't in lockdown and the rest of the population is living with the current measure what's to stop staff catching covid elsewhere?

@Beechwood

Schools open to provide childcare or a quality education. Which are you most wanting?

If it is a quality education, kids aren't getting that now, just the DfE are sitting very quietly on the returned data.

I work across schools. I have schools with more than 55% of staff ill with COVID. One school has COVID positive cases in every class, up to 75% of kids in some. No supply available or a different supply each day. TA's holding classes together, leaders taking classes, teachers teaching remotely from corridors to cover three classes at once. Lots of 'time outside'.
Kids are absent and missing their education, return then struggle due to long COVID and are off again.

Schools are 'open' but don't kid yourself that there is a good quality of continuous education happening.

(I also have three teachers in their 30's who have lost their whole career to long COVID and two deaths, staff leaving in droves, including head teachers and governors. Teaching assistant jobs we just can't fill, and in a time of real need, masses of cleaning job vacancies too).
The education system is a mess.

Schools also provide children with socialisation, routine and in some tragic cases safety. These things are all at least as important as their educational and childcare functions.

Absolutely not!

There is zero evidence to suggest this strain is in the least bit dangerous

That's so sad to read @Beechwood
I volunteer in a school once a week and you can see the stress everyone is under. The class I'm in haven't had full attendance all year.

@VikingOnTheFridge I absolutely agree, it was very difficult for those children who couldn't go in (and their parents) - even more so when they saw friends in school as usual!

By "meaningful" I meant in terms of spread risk on a national level, not an individual circumstances level, I should have made that clear and I apologise!

Worried about Omicron, of course, and the devastating effects it could have on lives.

I’m late to this. What exact devastating effects could Omicron have on lives? Have I missed something? Most of us are vaccinated. We’re getting boosters.

I’m a key worker. I kept my kids at home during last school closures. NO WAY would I do it again. My son is seriously behind due to the shit show lockdowns.

Schools need to remain open. Anymore lockdowns with schools shut and it will ruin the lives and education of thousands of children.

No way should schools be closing again. So much long term damage has been done from the closures.

No but teachers should get the booster and classrooms should have filters and adequate funding.

None of this will happen because the government hate children, schools and teachers,.

[quote UndeadSlut]@VikingOnTheFridge I absolutely agree, it was very difficult for those children who couldn't go in (and their parents) - even more so when they saw friends in school as usual!

By "meaningful" I meant in terms of spread risk on a national level, not an individual circumstances level, I should have made that clear and I apologise![/quote]
Not at all, I get what you meant to say and agree. There's no doubt that any closure would include a substantial keyworker list and a parenting population even more desperate to ensure their kids qualified.

Clearly there is a lot of transmission going on in schools. Even so, when there are millions of people who have to work and also have children young enough to need care, there isn't actually a way for those children to be looked after in a way that gets transmission under control, unless the state is paying a lot of their parents not to work. As that isn't going to happen, those children will either be in keyworker provision or ad hoc, informal arrangements. The impact of previous closures will not be replicated again.

Why should childless people give up their social lives and activities just so kids can go to school especially when it’s now proven schools are the biggest vector to transmissions

Jesus wept! Is this what people actually think?! I despair.

I don't think schools will close. Covid ripped through our big secondary in Sept/October and we had to partially close for a few weeks (year groups were off on a daily rolling basis), because we had so many teachers off ill. Vulnerable students were still in, and the outbreak burnt out over several weeks. Zero Covid in our school now.

Jesus wept! Is this what people actually think?! I despair.

I haven’t seen swathes of people without children posting that kind of thinking. I wonder if that poster is someone without kids themselves or not.

I think a lot of people who don't have DC also understand that they live in a society that requires the labour of parents to function normally. One doesn't have to be particularly bothered about primary aged children to understand that removing what is the primary source of childcare for most of them can affect people who rely on the work their parents do.

I don't think schools will shut again.

I think a lot of people who don't have DC also understand that they live in a society that requires the labour of parents to function normally.

Exactly. These people would be the first to complain if asked to cover extra work in their jobs for parents dealing with school closures.

"waaayyy cheaper than paying for hospital treatment for those who get ill."

Only if they get ill.

I'm happy to take that chance, thanks. :-)

It's not question as to whether schools should close, more that they will, partially at least, as teachers/TAs go down with Covid.

The important thing is that Boris Johnson will not say schools must close as that would be very wrong, so they will be open in name. He will have saved education. Much as he saved Christmas.

No, absolutely not

Everything else possible should be done - in terms of preventative measures and other closures - before school close

@puppeteer

"waaayyy cheaper than paying for hospital treatment for those who get ill."

Only if they get ill.

I'm happy to take that chance, thanks. :-)

It seems you do not understand the economics involved here - paying for isolation for 5000 people would be cheaper than paying for one person in ICU.

You seem willing to throw money down the drain.

The Tories do it on principle, they know it makes no economic sense.

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

No, absolutely not

Everything else possible should be done - in terms of preventative measures and other closures - before school close

Sadly, doing ‘everything else possible’ isn’t happening in schools and there are actually no preventive measures taking place at all, other than staff/Y7+ wearing masks in a very small number of areas.

No. Please No. (Teacher here.)

Argh sorry - 500 people!

500 x 200 = 100,000

A person in ICU costs £2000/night, plus the time in general wards, plus a year off work, plus ongoing care, plus the cost of delayed treatment for another potentail bed occupant.

I think a lot of people who don't have DC also understand that they live in a society that requires the labour of parents to function normally.

^^
Realistically, one parent per household would need to be excused work entirely- on full pay - for school closures to be a realistic option, and children to actually learn at home. Where families have a sahm it’s all well and good, but if you’re working you can’t educate you child as it isn’t possible to do two jobs at once.

However, I think the real reason not to do it is that it’s not fair on children. We adults have all had our education, uninterrupted, at school with our peers. We should even consider denying this generation what we had because “well I don’t have children and I want the pubs open”

Absolutely fucking not. School isn’t just about education. It’s also routine, friendship, well-being. And for some kids, warmth, safety & security. There may be occasions when kids aren’t receiving the best education due to covid absences but they continue to have some normality, to spend time running around with their friends and having fun. Routine that kids need for their mental health & well being. Teens are the same. It’s so important to get them out their bedrooms & interacting with friends and all the gossip.

I am completely in agreement with those who say ‘schools must stay open so we must do everything we can to mitigate the risks in schools, including restrictions in wider society’. I want schools to remain open to all, with children being taught by their permanent teachers, every day.

I am less in agreement with those who say ‘I want schools open but I do not support anything at all that genuinely facilitates this.’

Oh people who say they shouldn't have to sacrifice their social lives in order for kids to go to school are just bellends. There is no point even engaging with them, they are ridiculous.

Kids need educating and if these adults don't like it they can fuck off to somewhere else where there are no kids. Like the bottom of the sea or Mars.

And I would have said that aged 20 and childless. Because clearly society needs to prioritise the future of society.