Should schools close again?

[FuckinGoddess]

I’m at the end of my tether.

Worried about Omicron, of course, and the devastating effects it could have on lives.

Worried about children missing out on even more education. Worried about being forced to stay at home again. And worried about people dying.

What do you think will happen? What should happen ?

1st lockdown
End March - 1st June - Small numbers in (up to about 25% of my school)

1st June - end July - 50% of school in (mixture of allowed year groups + keyworkers).

2nd lockdown
At least 50% of the school in throughout.

They aren't tiny numbers - that is an exaggeration.

I think paying people’s wages to isolate if they have positive household contact; wearing masks wherever possible; advice to wfh; furlough/wfh for CEV as an option; increase booster jabs will help.

Numbers were high enough

It still didn’t help the dc the go were closed out each time.

It wasn’t mixed up these dc did two terms out and couldn’t access the school.

So it doesn’t help

(OTOH, my own child wasn't allowed in school at all during that period, so I can see it from both sides!)

But shut for how long.., in my opinion they have majorly over-hyped this new variant!!

We aren't anywhere near something as drastic as this anyway are we, as PP said before this will come work form home and various less harmful measures.

@cantkeepawayforever

1st lockdown End March - 1st June - Small numbers in (up to about 25% of my school)

1st June - end July - 50% of school in (mixture of allowed year groups + keyworkers).

2nd lockdown
At least 50% of the school in throughout.

They aren't tiny numbers - that is an exaggeration.

If your child wasn't allowed in the school was shut to them. The education act doesn't say it's fine to only educate some children. They all have a right to be in school

Well there might not be choice in it, if staff get line on the ground then they will have to close. Talking to teachers that are in high schools the kids have engaged with distance learning but we have also seen wider behaviour or kids being bored during lockdown. Would prefer if part of school scaled back and people work from home if they could than a full lock down as people could keep businesses open etc

No they should not close again but the government should be doing far, far more to improve air quality in schools, vaccinations for kids and proper masking etc.

I am so angry and fucked off at the shit, lazy, corrupt, useless Tories who have done the bare minimum every time for schools.

No

I'm not saying it didn't effect anyone personally @Pootle40, I'm sure it did and was very difficult. It was for me as a keyworker who didn't want my children in school but I had to work myself or lose my job. However what I'm saying is that it wouldn't make enough of a difference to justify doing it again.

The definitions of "keyworker" and "vulnerable child" were pushed way further than in the initial lockdown. Many parents who could have had their children at home found ways and reasons to send them in.
Yes some children still did not fit the requirements (some schools were tougher on the "rules") and those children didn't attend.
But those numbers throughout the school meant that the risk of spread was still fairly high, and this was when vaccines were just starting to be rolled out.
If schools were to close again that's the situation that would be likely to occur again, so it won't make a difference on a nationwide level.

No, not if they have enough staff to stay open.

Ours closed to year 8 to 10 on the last day of term as there were not enough teachers. So unavoidable but hasn't been necessary since.

@Namenic

I think paying people’s wages to isolate if they have positive household contact; wearing masks wherever possible; advice to wfh; furlough/wfh for CEV as an option; increase booster jabs will help.

Although paying people to isolate costs money.

I don't want my taxes going to that cause — or perhaps more to the point, it's the future taxes of my kids, and their inheritance.

I don't mind people isolating at their own cost. Or at that of their employers.

I think I’d rather pay people to isolate and avoid another lockdown (which will be worse for the economy) or schools closing or nhs being overwhelmed.

@puppeteer paying people to isolate would be waaayyy cheaper than paying for hospital treatment for those who get ill.

False economies are stupid when dealing with a crisis.

@UndeadSlut

Schools weren't "closed" in any meaningful sense in January. First lockdown we had a max of 12 children in school. Second one we had pretty much half of every class in. We needed all our teachers and support staff in.

Any other school closure would be the same as this - I'm unsure what massive difference people think this would make.

The closures were pretty fucking meaningful to those children who were considered unworthy of education!

But you're right, the numbers in school were significant and would be at least as big if not bigger this time, as parents and employers have even less wiggle room. And that's one of the reasons why national closures won't happen again. That plus the lack of furlough would mean even greater demand on 'keyworker' places, and those who still couldn't wangle one would be even more likely to rely on cobbled together solutions involving lots of contacts. Add in the reality that school does function as vital childcare, and how politically damaging another closure would be for the Tories, and it's clearly not happening again. Small scale ad hoc closures because of staffing issues are a different matter and sometimes unavoidable.

No to schools closing again. So many kids in at my kids school last time, and as once again mine would have to be off should they close it’s a big no from me. Eldest is only just catching up & settling again after the last two.

@Popcornriver

Nope. Unless the new varient poses an actual risk to the children themselves. And not just the risk of them passing it on to an adult.

I think if that were the case though we'd already start hearing about it. If it did pose a direct risk to children though mine would be educated from home, regardless of schools open or not.

Nice. You don’t care about teachers then, just your own children.

Absolutely not. They've missed out on so much education and socialisation as it is - they need time to catch up ffs.

Plus, what about the parents who need to work? That's just what they need, all the kids sent home and childcare settings shut 3 weeks before Christmas.

Not everyone can work from home.

@PeachesPumpkin

Don’t worry they won’t close. The quality of education might not be very good due to high levels of staff illness and self-isolating but they won’t close. At the moment we have high levels of COVID and staff are on their knees; classes are taken by TAs and 1:1s which is very difficult for everyone.

Some are closed though

@TinselTitsAndGlitteryBits

Absolutely not. They've missed out on so much education and socialisation as it is - they need time to catch up ffs.

Plus, what about the parents who need to work? That's just what they need, all the kids sent home and childcare settings shut 3 weeks before Christmas.

Not everyone can work from home.

And of course those parents are then more likely to turn to piecemeal childcare options, kids going to whichever relative, friend or neighbour is free and willing. Even if the state doesn't give a shit about the welfare of the children involved, and it was evidently not a priority last time, it doesn't take too much informal childcare swapping to mean the number of contacts is barely affected.

I can’t imagine a mass closure of schools but schools are shutting- closing down year groups, students being told to stay home and go into teams etc

Schools open to provide childcare or a quality education. Which are you most wanting?

If it is a quality education, kids aren't getting that now, just the DfE are sitting very quietly on the returned data.

I work across schools. I have schools with more than 55% of staff ill with COVID. One school has COVID positive cases in every class, up to 75% of kids in some. No supply available or a different supply each day. TA's holding classes together, leaders taking classes, teachers teaching remotely from corridors to cover three classes at once. Lots of 'time outside'.
Kids are absent and missing their education, return then struggle due to long COVID and are off again.

Schools are 'open' but don't kid yourself that there is a good quality of continuous education happening.

(I also have three teachers in their 30's who have lost their whole career to long COVID and two deaths, staff leaving in droves, including head teachers and governors. Teaching assistant jobs we just can't fill, and in a time of real need, masses of cleaning job vacancies too).
The education system is a mess.

We won't know how serious this is until we've been through the cycle of approx 3 weeks from infection to hospital to icu to death. Only then will we know what measures are necessary.

@Beechwood

Schools open to provide childcare or a quality education. Which are you most wanting?

If it is a quality education, kids aren't getting that now, just the DfE are sitting very quietly on the returned data.

I work across schools. I have schools with more than 55% of staff ill with COVID. One school has COVID positive cases in every class, up to 75% of kids in some. No supply available or a different supply each day. TA's holding classes together, leaders taking classes, teachers teaching remotely from corridors to cover three classes at once. Lots of 'time outside'.
Kids are absent and missing their education, return then struggle due to long COVID and are off again.

Schools are 'open' but don't kid yourself that there is a good quality of continuous education happening.

(I also have three teachers in their 30's who have lost their whole career to long COVID and two deaths, staff leaving in droves, including head teachers and governors. Teaching assistant jobs we just can't fill, and in a time of real need, masses of cleaning job vacancies too).
The education system is a mess.

So what's the solution in your eyes then?

Shut the schools until there's more teachers?

Shut them until covid is gone (which isn't going to happen)?

Shut schools all together?

It's not as if any of the above are going to happen quickly, so if that's the case - how long are the children meant to go without schooling?

No matter what, there are still hundreds of thousands of children who need to be in school - that have already lost plenty of education.

As for your comment about them not getting quality education, speak for yourself - DDs school and the schools of my family members and friend children are teaching as normal, kids are catching up to where they should be and this is evident in the work being produced.