On the spot fines for not wearing a mask

[leafygarden42]

£200 for first time and can double up to £6,400!

Masks have been compulsory/required on the tube for months, but nobody cared. I don't really care if people are wearing masks out of altruism or not. It is not a hard thing to do for the vast majority of people when we are crammed in like sardines.

@OnceUponAWhine

All the self.righteous pricks who say "just wear a mask it's not that hard" and "wear a lanyard so we'll know" have no fing idea what life is like for some people.

Exactly this. Also, so many people claiming they can tell when people don’t really have an exemption🙄 You have no idea/judging on the way someone looks. It’s utterly depressing to hear the narrative of ‘you’re selfish if you don’t wear a mask’
I believe it’s also selfish to enjoy all your health privileges- including mental health state- without thinking of others who aren’t so lucky.

Yes, I've noted a definite increase in the number of posters who think they have an idea of the prevalence of exemptions across the general population. Perhaps they have access to some special, secret trauma register only available to busybodies.

I'm a retail manager in a large store

Colleagues today have been verbally abused because they offered maskless customers masks

I've told them not to enter into anymore discussions with the public over face coverings. Mental health in retail is already spiralling

There doesn't seem to be much difference today than last week, plenty not wearing masks still. Staff are but that's the only change. Nobody sanitising hands either.

Just had email Sainsburys saying have security Guards back on doors to help “assist with requirements”. Have to see how heavy handed that may be!

@xxxGirlCrushxxx

I'm a retail manager in a large store

Colleagues today have been verbally abused because they offered maskless customers masks

I've told them not to enter into anymore discussions with the public over face coverings. Mental health in retail is already spiralling

There doesn't seem to be much difference today than last week, plenty not wearing masks still. Staff are but that's the only change. Nobody sanitising hands either.

Weirdly I just went into Poundland and no customers were wearing masks, then went into Next, literally the very next shop down, and everyone was wearing masks.

@girlmom21

The government website says that legally you don't need to wear a face mask so I can't see these fines being enforceable.

It doesn't, it says very clearly that wearing one is a legal requirement.

Being exempt is a reasonable excuse.

Just deciding it's not for you isn't' a reasonable excuse.

@ColinTheKoala they've updated it since I posted this morning. This morning it still referenced the July date when masks stopped being mandatory.

There are exemptions in all countries where mask wearing is mandatory
It's just that you don't get to self-identify. You need a doctor's certificate.

But that isn’t the case here (and given how busy GPs are, I doubt it will be brought in).

I don’t really understand the position this puts police in. If someone says “I’m exempt because of x condition” is the person obliged to provide proof within a certain number of days? Or are the police obliged to say, ok then, on your way?
Obviously if someone says “I’m not wearing one because fuck masks and fuck you” that’s different, but I imagine if someone didn’t want to wear a mask, they are probably capable of inventing a reason why. So are the police in a position of being expected to do something about it, but not really being able to?

People just say they feel anxious wearing them. Job done, they are exempt

@ClaudiaWankleman

It’s about enforcing fines where police ARE able to be, which then creates a climate in which the populace are unsure of whether/where/when they’re going to bump into an officer, so they comply at all times.

I am aware we uncontroversially have this approach to coercing the population into behaving a certain way in many other respects (handheld speed cameras, bobbies on the beat, at a push stop and search) but when you write it down like that its quite a grim thought. People walk around worried they're going to be punished which makes them do something they might not want to do.

That's how our legal system works in general though - at least part of it is the fear and expectation of punishment. If there were no consequences then wouldn't we all be doing whatever we want?

Was in Sainsbury's earlier, everyone wearing masks but many on chins.

I would far prefer social distancing to the cheeky masked mare leaning over me to squeeze the avocados !

I'd happily ditch masks if people kept out of my face.

@Skinnytailedsquirrel quite!!!!

@Amazingblossoms Yes, it does mean that some members of society are more disadvantaged- though, in all honesty, I don't believe the number of people who don't wear masks in the UK or the USA are due to real reasons.

I don't hear in my left ear. I have been raped. I also suffer from clinical depression and anxiety. I am not autistic, mind. I still wear my damn mask.

@rrhuth

GIven the Tories have cut so many police officers they can make as many laws as they want, it is just hot air.

Hope someone fines Johnson the stupid arse next time he cba to wear a mask.

The police that are actually about, go after easy targets for these things. Always a woman on her own or something like that.

I’m on a crowded tube now & about 90% of the people I can see are wearing masks. Which is very different from this time last week.

@OnceUponAWhine I think it's a bit presumptuous to assume that many of us who push masks DON'T have valid reasons to not wear one.

As I mentioned earlier, I am partially deaf. I am a victim of rape. I have diagnosed chronic depression and anxiety. I still manage to wear a mask.

@FflosFfantastig ironically I am partially deaf; I only hear in one ear. Masks do make it harder but not impossible! Sign language, writing things down, etc. Needs must.

@SickAndTiredAgain

There are exemptions in all countries where mask wearing is mandatory It's just that you don't get to self-identify. You need a doctor's certificate.

But that isn’t the case here (and given how busy GPs are, I doubt it will be brought in).

I don’t really understand the position this puts police in. If someone says “I’m exempt because of x condition” is the person obliged to provide proof within a certain number of days? Or are the police obliged to say, ok then, on your way?
Obviously if someone says “I’m not wearing one because fuck masks and fuck you” that’s different, but I imagine if someone didn’t want to wear a mask, they are probably capable of inventing a reason why. So are the police in a position of being expected to do something about it, but not really being able to?

Essentially.

If someone claims an exemption because of trauma, as opposed to eg asthma, there isn't necessarily any evidence of that. There's nothing in the regulations to require a medical record of it for example.

@VikingOnTheFridge yeah, that’s what I thought. I appreciate that even just saying there’ll be fines will increase mask wearing among people who don’t want to, but also don’t want to get in trouble or lie to the police. But it feels a little like passing the buck on to police who have little actual ability to do anything if someone politely provides a reason. And then they’ll be criticised by people saying “why isn’t it enforced?!”

But having said that, I don’t know the alternative. They can’t say police won’t bother doing anything, and they can’t bring in proof as there’s no capacity for GPs to provide it. And as you say, some legally valid exemptions won’t be something the GP will necessarily be aware of.

@Grumpasaurus

It's ridiculous how few people in England wear masks.

I live in Portugal. You very literally cannot cross the threshold of any premise without a mask. Or any form of transport. Many wear them outside. No exemptions. All seem able and willing to comply!

What is WRONG with England?

Selfish snowflakes

[quote Grumpasaurus]@OnceUponAWhine I think it's a bit presumptuous to assume that many of us who push masks DON'T have valid reasons to not wear one.

As I mentioned earlier, I am partially deaf. I am a victim of rape. I have diagnosed chronic depression and anxiety. I still manage to wear a mask. [/quote]
Good for you.
You don't speak for everyone that has had the same experiences/conditions.

[quote SickAndTiredAgain]@VikingOnTheFridge yeah, that’s what I thought. I appreciate that even just saying there’ll be fines will increase mask wearing among people who don’t want to, but also don’t want to get in trouble or lie to the police. But it feels a little like passing the buck on to police who have little actual ability to do anything if someone politely provides a reason. And then they’ll be criticised by people saying “why isn’t it enforced?!”

But having said that, I don’t know the alternative. They can’t say police won’t bother doing anything, and they can’t bring in proof as there’s no capacity for GPs to provide it. And as you say, some legally valid exemptions won’t be something the GP will necessarily be aware of.[/quote]
Ultimately, in a country where police numbers are so low and we're (allegedly) policed by consent, none of this really works unless enough of the population actually want to go along with it. That's true of masks, it was also true of social distancing,
and isolating kids after burst bubbles when they were required. Obviously yes, as you say, some people will observe restrictions they otherwise wouldn't just out of fear they'll be fined, but generally what you need is a population who are doing it because they buy into it. Otherwise there's only so far you can go.

[quote Grumpasaurus]@Amazingblossoms Yes, it does mean that some members of society are more disadvantaged- though, in all honesty, I don't believe the number of people who don't wear masks in the UK or the USA are due to real reasons.

I don't hear in my left ear. I have been raped. I also suffer from clinical depression and anxiety. I am not autistic, mind. I still wear my damn mask. [/quote]

@PAFMO

Yes, those things are awful

Still doesn't give them the right to dictate how others respond to trauma

It's like saying "my parents beat the shit out of me when I didn't do my homework, didn't do me any harm"

Grim