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New Covid variant *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

998 replies

Wingingthis · 25/11/2021 11:56

Can anyone talk some sense about how dangerous this is or is it just the media over exaggerating?

OP posts:
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peridito · 29/11/2021 13:01

From the number of cases now surfacing it seems as though this new strain has been around for some time .

So ...wouldn't it be apparent if it caused severe symptoms ?

And ,I might be wrong ,but I understand that not all labs processing tests can assess samples for S gene drop out .So not all Omnicron cases have been/will be identified .

Cornettoninja · 29/11/2021 13:06

@peridito possibly, but ‘apparent’ and ‘seems’ isn’t conclusive. We don’t know if it’s been circulating in particular age groups or if vaccinated/unvaccinated are responding differently.

It would be amazing if omnicron really was milder and didn’t completely escape vaccines but we just don’t know enough to reliably say either way yet.

RedToothBrush · 29/11/2021 13:09

[quote Cornettoninja]@RedToothBrush, no worries Smile

It reminds me of a woman interviewed in summer 2020 when there was lots of opening and closing of travel corridors. She was outraged that there wasn’t a vaccine available and ‘they’ should just pull their fingers out. We’re at a funny point in history where the science is really good but to the point people have no concept that not everything can be done in a couple of weeks if at all.[/quote]
It certainly is.

I think it shows the power of belief and just why society fears the power of religious authorities.

Its easy to be dismissive of it, but its just easier for a lot of people rather than to accept difficult things and unpalettable things.

I think there is some research into this, and being not being too anxious mean that humans were more likely to take risks which allowed them to explore and to invent unlike other species which is why it was valuable to humans. It was almost protective and stopped humans from deciding to live in a cave forever more because it was 'safe'. At this point in human evolution it might be the thing that drives us to explore the universe or simply kill ourselves...

But still, sadly

RedToothBrush · 29/11/2021 13:30

@peridito

From the number of cases now surfacing it seems as though this new strain has been around for some time .

So ...wouldn't it be apparent if it caused severe symptoms ?

And ,I might be wrong ,but I understand that not all labs processing tests can assess samples for S gene drop out .So not all Omnicron cases have been/will be identified .

No.

You still need x number of cases / hospitalisations to know for sure to be able to compare Delta to Omicron.

We haven't got enough data yet to be able to assess that to a level where the margin of error is sufficiently low.

Example. Say we have a case fatality rate of 1 per 100, that means for every hundred cases, only 1 death. If you only have 100 cases to draw data from in comparasion to that existing cfr, you might have a sample which is just randomly unlucky or unrepresentative and have 4 deaths. That could make the case fatality rate look much worse than it actually is. Or you might have none. Which would make it look milder. Thats why you have larger sample sizes and you try to look for like for like populations so you can compare more fairly and eliminate the element of luck. Basically you have to have a sufficient margin of error to rule out the effects of luck and to try and spot patterns by demographic difference.

All we can do at this point is recheck previous samples for the drop S gene to see how many we might have missed, and then start to work forward on known cases and what outcomes are. Thats going to take a while. Especially if demand on labs due to changes to travel is increased at the same time.

What we have seen in this pandemic is that cases tend to start in one community within narrow age bands and then take a while to spread to different age groups and socio-economic groups. This can really distort things early on. So we have to adjust for things like housing density, underlying health, socio-economic status, genetic predisposition, life style etc etc. Until you do that, you are still in the land of anecdote rather than scientific analysis.

What happens in South Africa for an outbreak in a black poor area with very poor crowded housing with low life expectacy and low vaccine uptake coming into Summer is very difficult to compare and assess what will happen in an aging south asian population with high levels of things like diabetes but with relatively high vaccine uptake living in the North West of England in late November. They aren't directly comparable.

RedToothBrush · 29/11/2021 13:42

Anyway, it looks Nicola Sturgeon's call for an 8 day isolation period has gone unheded. The government has doubled down on no review before the end of three weeks. That takes us to 20th December. Given that many people will start their Christmas get away as soon as the schools break up on Friday 17th, that doesn't necessarily help a lot of people.

As I said upthread I think it realistic that many people who travel before then might well end up in week long isolation limbo anyway (so actually I wonder if the whole idea from the Scottish and Welsh government is to cover the PCR farce and anger thats likely to unfold in the next fortnight).

I've friends who are due to go away for Christmas and are hoping to still do things at NY - I'm not fancying their chances.

I bet the government would prefer people to take the decision to cancel due to uncertainity, thus taking themselves out of the blame game and keeping the demand for travel PCRs slightly lower. Then they can say 'individual responsibility' to their hearts content.

Oh its going to be fun to watch (add sarcasm here).

peridito · 29/11/2021 13:43

Cornettoninja - I'm using words like "seems" and "apparent"precisely because they indicate an element of doubt.I'd use different words if I wished to claim something was factual .
I'm just acknowledging that we know very little for sure at the moment.Not trying to claim any certainty or spread rumours!

peridito · 29/11/2021 13:46

RTB - sorry it was just a comment ,pondering .

I honestly do realise that we need more time and data before we can draw conclusions .

peridito · 29/11/2021 13:52

Aaanyway ,moving on .

Has anyone any views on below ,which is from the WHO
www.who.int/news/item/28-11-2021-update-on-omicron ?

Preliminary evidence suggests there may be an increased risk of reinfection with Omicron (ie, people who have previously had COVID-19 could become reinfected more easily with Omicron), as compared to other variants of concern, but information is limited. More information on this will become available in the coming days and weeks.

RedToothBrush · 29/11/2021 13:55

To summarise where we are is pretty much we are already fucked or we aren't and there's not going to be much you can do to change that.

JesusIsAnyNameFree · 29/11/2021 13:55

@peridito

Aaanyway ,moving on .

Has anyone any views on below ,which is from the WHO
www.who.int/news/item/28-11-2021-update-on-omicron ?

Preliminary evidence suggests there may be an increased risk of reinfection with Omicron (ie, people who have previously had COVID-19 could become reinfected more easily with Omicron), as compared to other variants of concern, but information is limited. More information on this will become available in the coming days and weeks.

Oh, here we go🙄
peridito · 29/11/2021 14:00

My own view is that it makes no sense .

Omicron is a variant of Covid ,I would have thought ( I acknowledge that I don't know ! ) that having the first would give some immunity to it .

What could the WHO be basing this remark on ?? How can they have data to support the idea ?

I can't understand it all .

PurpleDaisies · 29/11/2021 14:06

@peridito

My own view is that it makes no sense .

Omicron is a variant of Covid ,I would have thought ( I acknowledge that I don't know ! ) that having the first would give some immunity to it .

What could the WHO be basing this remark on ?? How can they have data to support the idea ?

I can't understand it all .

It has a lot of mutation on the spike protein so it will be harder to recognise from previous infection.

They’re saying there’s an increase in the reinfection risk, not that you have no protection at all.

I’m not sure that’s controversial.

JesusIsAnyNameFree · 29/11/2021 14:07

@peridito

My own view is that it makes no sense .

Omicron is a variant of Covid ,I would have thought ( I acknowledge that I don't know ! ) that having the first would give some immunity to it .

What could the WHO be basing this remark on ?? How can they have data to support the idea ?

I can't understand it all .

It does make sense, unfortunately. It's heavily mutated and the viruses purpose is to infect and spread. If this turns out to be correct, it has found a way to do so much more effectively. All we can hope for is that it's milder than delta, even in older and sick people.
Mirw · 29/11/2021 14:16

The UK and Scottish Governments were told that COP26 would bring new strains to the UK. But they knew best. Guess what, we not have the South African version. Then we will have the Asian version along with the South American version... Blojob and Nicola should step down as they are the Twt Twns.

Cornettoninja · 29/11/2021 14:17

@peridito I wasn’t using ‘ ‘ to be sarky, just to illustrate that at the moment early observations aren’t enough to be sure. I don’t think SA have seen a rise in hospital admissions/deaths due to Omicron which is encouraging but we haven’t seen enough evidence from confirmed cases to reliably say either way.

That said, over on the data thread they have recent sewage results from SA (Johannesburg?) which suggest a high prevalence not reflected in their identified case figures.

Cornettoninja · 29/11/2021 14:21

Apologies it’s Pretoria. Credit to @JanglyBeads whose link I pinched!

mobile.twitter.com/michaelmina_lab/status/1465126369608744968?s=21

The Twitter thread addresses the point that it might mean cases are milder but it also may be a precursor to a rise in hospital admissions.

RedToothBrush · 29/11/2021 14:27

Oh look. Another post based on...

... Why didn't we just keep all the borders closed permanently...

I wish there was a fine for shouting 'close the borders immediately!' at this point.

peridito · 29/11/2021 14:39

PurpleDaisies They’re saying there’s an increase in the reinfection risk, not that you have no protection at all

I'm not suggesting ( or even saying ) that the WHO are stating that there is no protection at all !
But I was surprised to read that there was a thought that people who have previously had COVID-19 could become reinfected more easily with Omicron. But thanks to posters above I realise Blush that what is being said is that "the more easily" is compared to other Covid variants .

Not sure if I've expressed that v well ,rushing to go out !

Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/11/2021 15:19

The scaremongering is quite something

Again, completely foreseeable I'm afraid

Omicron appears to be this winter's variant, and since Covid's going nowhere there'll doubtless be another one some time next year and every single year after that
... so I'm honestly wondering just how long some will be prepared to whip themselves into a state for

RedToothBrush · 29/11/2021 15:32

JVCI have recommended the booster be rolled out to all over 18s
The gap from second to third jabs should be reduced from six months to 3 months.
Children aged 12 - 15 should be given second jabs three months after 1st.

Government still have to approve the recommendations.

herecomesthsun · 29/11/2021 15:35

good

Tealightsandd · 29/11/2021 15:36

@RedToothBrush

Oh look. Another post based on...

... Why didn't we just keep all the borders closed permanently...

I wish there was a fine for shouting 'close the borders immediately!' at this point.

Can't take the truth?

There will an inquiry. Apparently. At some point.

Lessons can't be learned if they can't be pointed out.

And very very serious mistakes - deadly and disabling both to individuals and economy - can never be repeated too often. Particularly whilst they keep on being denied and excused.

Experts warn of future pandemics.

The whole world should've enacted pandemic border control. Had that happened, this all would've been over with 18 months ago.

Asia and Africa got it. The USA semi got it. Perhaps next time Europe (including the UK) will too.

Don't repeat the mistakes of history.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 29/11/2021 15:39

The gap from second to third jabs should be reduced from six months to 3 months

What was that some were saying about it only being every 6 months, or even just once a year?

I find myself wondering what'll happen if the vaccines are tweaked for the latest variant, and whether there'll be a pause before they're administered too ...

1990butgrey · 29/11/2021 15:42

@Tealightsandd yes because there's famously been no Covid cases in the US....

MarshaBradyo · 29/11/2021 15:42

Loads of changes around vaccination - hopefully will help