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Why are things ' kicking off ' in Europe ?

580 replies

genuinequestion21 · 18/11/2021 20:02

Please excuse my ignorance. But why is Germany for example stressing so much about covid right now ?

I think we have more cases per 100 k than them and have been having high cases for months and we are still open and not ' that much ' talk about lockdown etc. It seems we are kind of just about ' OK '. Well at least we aren't going to plan B yet.

However in Germany there have been few cases and cases are now exploding and there's talk of lock downs etc.

Hospitals also seem to be full again. Whereas in the UK, they don't seem to be on the brink.

Why these differences ? Germany and UK have a very similar proportion of the population vaccinated. Is it because cases are seeming to go up very rapidly, whereas ours have been high but flat for ages ?

Why are their hospitals full again and ours are not ?

Please correct any factual information which is incorrect.

OP posts:
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BunsyGirl · 20/11/2021 09:33

@Kikkomam I’m not sure why people refer to it as “luck” when it was widely reported that the aim of the U.K. was to have our peak before the winter. Chris Whitty said:

“There is quite a strong view by many people, including myself actually, that going in the summer has some advantages, all other things being equal, to opening up into the autumn when schools are going back and when we’re heading into the winter period when the NHS tends to be under greatest pressure for many other reasons,” he added.

MarshaBradyo · 20/11/2021 09:43

[quote BunsyGirl]@Kikkomam I’m not sure why people refer to it as “luck” when it was widely reported that the aim of the U.K. was to have our peak before the winter. Chris Whitty said:

“There is quite a strong view by many people, including myself actually, that going in the summer has some advantages, all other things being equal, to opening up into the autumn when schools are going back and when we’re heading into the winter period when the NHS tends to be under greatest pressure for many other reasons,” he added.[/quote]
Ah this is it. I knew he was direct about it but couldn’t remember quote

StrongCoffeAvalanche · 20/11/2021 09:55

I usually despise every single thing about the Tories.

....But I think they have handled covid well. Vaccines have been delivered to many, exit lockdown seems to have been successful.

A few exceptions. First vaccines should have gone to the police, supermarket workers, teachers, fire fighters etc

And of course if they funded the NHS properly in the first place we'd have been in a better situation.

Hmmm. Maybe I'm not as happy as I thought.

StrongCoffeAvalanche · 20/11/2021 09:57

....oh and my disabled son should have been offered a vaccine before me, his carer and I don't think I'll ever forgive the DNR order placed on him due to his disability.

MapleMay11 · 20/11/2021 10:05

No, they are just unlucky. The virus comes in waves, they only had 60% vaccination rate, cold weather and waning immunity to delta. Its really no more complicated than that.

I don't think Austria is unlucky. It seems like this could have been predicted.

Intercity225 · 20/11/2021 10:19

I suspect quite a few may have lacked the tech or knowledge to do so anyway.

We went to the theatre around the end of September in England, they did check every member of the audience going in - they accepted the COVID Vaccination cards, we are given at the vaccination centre; as well as more hi tech like Covid passes on phones.

genuinequestion21 · 20/11/2021 10:48

I just hope that our strategy was right and that we are not going to have some massive wave for Christmas.

Surely covid is running out of people to infect..

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PrincessNutNuts · 20/11/2021 11:21

@genuinequestion21

I just hope that our strategy was right and that we are not going to have some massive wave for Christmas.

Surely covid is running out of people to infect..

The official number is about 10 million of us have had it.

Most credible estimates say you can triple that.

That still leaves half the country.

MarshaBradyo · 20/11/2021 11:45

@genuinequestion21

I just hope that our strategy was right and that we are not going to have some massive wave for Christmas.

Surely covid is running out of people to infect..

I think it’s a good idea to look at antibody levels as vaccination is part of the picture
MarshaBradyo · 20/11/2021 11:46

Which are really high I should say

Delatron · 20/11/2021 15:11

No not luck. A clear strategy and plan to try and time the peak in summer and not winter. I am with them and agree with our current strategy. It’s not without risk though but I’m hoping we won’t see any dramatic increase in cases just steady ups and downs. So hovering between 30,000 and 50,000 until we pass winter. Though the predicted worse case was 100,000 so who knows. What we do know is that they expected 100,000 so will not reintroduce restrictions if we hover around 50,000.

Plus they are looking at hospital admissions which went down yesterday.

Europe’s strategy has been to carry on with restrictions. Which some wanted to happen here. The question is how long for and what happens when you take them away? It really does seem as though this virus will just follow a path and minor mitigations don’t do much other than a bit of suppression for a while.

PrincessNutNuts · 20/11/2021 17:11

Peak in the summer and not winter you say?

Why are things ' kicking off ' in Europe ?
HarrietPierce · 20/11/2021 17:31

From yesterday's Guardian

As Covid infection rates surged again across Europe, Boris Johnson spoke this week of “storm clouds gathering” over parts of the continent and said it was unclear when or how badly the latest wave would “wash up on our shores”.

The situation in some EU member states, particularly those with low vaccination rates, is indeed dramatic. In central and eastern Europe in particular, but also Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands, case numbers are rocketing.

But missing from the prime minister’s remarks, and from much of the media coverage of them, was the fact that Britain’s rolling seven-day average of daily new coronavirus cases is still higher than the average of the EU27, and has been since June.

According to figures from OurWorldInData, the EU’s average has quadrupled in recent weeks, from just over 110 daily new cases per million people on 1 October to 446 on Thursday.

The UK began that same period with a daily infection rate of 505 per million people, nearly five times the EU27 average. After peaking at nearly 700 in late October the rate fell to 495 on 10 November, but for the past week it has been climbing sharply again.

The headlines made much of Angela Merkel describing Germany’s situation as “dramatic”, but at 536 per million, its infection rate is lower than Britain’s 581 – which remains 30% higher than the average for the EU27.

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Slovakia and Slovenia are currently the EU’s hardest-hit countries, with rolling seven-day average rates of 1,643 and 1,581 per million respectively.

Not far behind are Austria – western Europe’s least vaccinated country, with 64% of the total population inoculated – on 1,395, Croatia on 1,275, and Belgium, the Czech Republic and the Netherlands, all with rates of more than 1,000.

Other EU members including Ireland, Hungary, Greece and the Baltic states also have infection rates higher than the UK’s. But several – mainly those with high vaccination rates and relatively strict social distancing rules – do not.

They include France on 201 daily infections per million, Italy on 138 and Spain on 95, as well as Portugal, Finland and Sweden. Infection rates in Romania and Bulgaria, previously the EU’s worst-affected countries, are now also much lower.

The WHO has said repeatedly in recent weeks that its 53-country European region is again at the centre of the pandemic, and no one knows whether those continental countries that have so far kept rates relatively low will continue to do so.

Britain’s infection rate, meanwhile, has climbed by about 15% over the past 10 days, from a base that for the past six months has been consistently higher than the European average – something the prime minister does not often mention.

Ohchristmastreeohchristmastree · 20/11/2021 17:31

I don’t think opening up in the summer will completely get rid of a winter peak, but it will certainly lessen it. And hopefully reducing pressure on the NHS as they’ve had a constant stream of covid for the past 4 months or so. Hopefully our winter restrictions won’t be as hash (lockdown) and we can bring in lesser restrictions to manage our winter.

Watapalava · 20/11/2021 17:43

Harriet

EU cases are likely massively underestimated given we are testing at a minimum of 3 or 4 x their level. they actually have very little idea of how badly they are doing

Plus many vaccinated the young workers as priority and not those actually at risk

We got a lot right

Watapalava · 20/11/2021 17:46

Its also worth mentioning that our cases are not leading to hospitalisations unlike EU

Yes we have 8000 in hospital but that's been pretty constant for ages and with 7-900 admitted daily, most must be in and out in terms of treatment given the number isnt rising.

Our case demographic is completely different. IF its young and fit who are infected, then the impact is much less

The EU has the issue of low vax in some vulnerable groups. We do not have that

KarenTheGammonRemoaner · 20/11/2021 17:55

@Aposterhasnoname

They were far more cautious over summer, and as a result, pushed their exit wave into winter.
Are they all vaccinated? Where they vaccinated before, when they didn't have it?
Nanalisa60 · 20/11/2021 17:56

My DH and myself both test positive on Wednesday, I have a mild head cold and DH has no symptoms at all nothing. We are both double jabbed another month till we get third jab. I will not be happy if any more lockdowns happen in the Uk.

PrimoPiatti · 20/11/2021 18:01

As of today:

Why are things ' kicking off ' in Europe ?
Kikkomam · 20/11/2021 18:07

French virologist on the news said something about the UK concentrating on vaxxing their older vulnerable population first meaning cases were lower? I presume she meant that there was such a huge take up of the vaccine at first?

Watapalava · 20/11/2021 18:12

Kikko

That's right - UK has huge faith in vaccine. Think i read yesterday that in vulnerable groups, 90% want the booster - the EU allowed vaccine fear to come in and didn't fight it enough because of their supply issues (suited them). Now kids and low risk groups make up a large proportion of their overall % vax but these don't get ill in same way).

Out of the % currently unvax in UK, many are unable but want to - eg huge numbers of teens now cant even get the jab because they've got to wait 12 weeks after covid. So the intent is largely here for Uk and so many kids will have had it now so even if unvax, will still transmit it less so in effect will behave as if vaccinated.

We targeted the number 1 contributor - age

Fluffmum · 20/11/2021 18:21

It’s ok here in Italy

007Stocko · 20/11/2021 18:23

They are just being hit by the Delta variant that spiked us earlier in the year, combined with not being as advanced in vaccination levels as us.

Briony123 · 20/11/2021 18:32

Other countries are horrified at the UK's covid death rate and don't want it in any way replicated in their countries. Just because our govt is fine with a consistently high covid death rate doesn't mean other countries are.

Delatron · 20/11/2021 18:37

Your diagram starts from before the first of July @PrincessNutNuts so you know, before we removed all restrictions.

It was summer and we were starting from a low base. But I do think releasing restrictions then prevented huge exponential growth now. (As you wrongly predicted).

I mean if someone said winter 2021 zero restrictions and this level of hospitalisations. You’d take it. I know it’s very hard to admit you were wrong though.....