Misinformation and Covid

[SpringKit]

A few weeks ago, on Facebook - a loose friend of mine shared a dodgy looking post from another public account.
I clicked onto this account and was pretty shocked by what Facebook was allowing to be displayed on public posts. Lots of Islamophobic posts on this account, anti immigration etc - but also Covid misinformation. One post was of a vaccine packet with a ‘supposed’ vaccine packet with an expiry date that was pre Covid. A quick image search showed it had been photo shopped - Facebook eventually removed the post - although this wasn’t immediate. A great number of her friends commented, shocked, believing the packet was real. So I would expect the resulting behaviour would be to consolidate anti-vaxx views in these posters - reject the jab, and perhaps cause themselves harm based on misinformation.
I’d just like to hear views on misinformation and free speech.
Interestingly this Facebook poster had a great many posts about ‘free speech’ ‘her right to offend people” etc.
I’ve changed my beliefs around free speech somewhat in light of Covid.
Surely there is a point when free speech becomes harmful - bullying, misinformation, racism, advocating harm to children etc?

I thought free speech was more about the right to express your views on religion ,politics etc ,not being offensive?
People post all kinds of crap on social media,and tbh it just makes them look ,not very informed or very intelligent,as soon as someone says sheeple I inwardly eye role and think the irony .

@x2boys - maybe it’s the fact that people use the term ‘free speech’ in order to be as offensive as they like. And whether that’s ok or not - where do you draw the line?
Yes, sounds like you are able to critically evaluate! But I was shocked by the number of posters who took it at face value.

And whether those people who took it at face value are vulnerable?

It's also up to people to use their brains and verify what others are posting. Many people being shocked just tells me they aren't doing this. We need more education to get people to engage their brains, much as one (hopefully) does when receiving scam phone calls or emails.

Also, offense is taken, not given. I cannot control how others react to what I write.

@CrunchyCarrot so a post on this account was a picture of a Muslim lady in a burka swimming - and clearly having difficulty, The poster was typing lol’s etc. I complained about the post, but Facebook’s response was that it wasn’t against their terms and conditions. And the poster would assert that the post is ok because of freedom of speech.
Is it right for that post to be in a public forum?
I would say no.

Unfortunately this is a very serious problem and it's getting worse. Facebook and other platforms aren't doing enough to stop it because it doesn't really affect them.

Read Mindfxck by Christopher Wiley - it's an eye opener.

[quote SpringKit]@CrunchyCarrot so a post on this account was a picture of a Muslim lady in a burka swimming - and clearly having difficulty, The poster was typing lol’s etc. I complained about the post, but Facebook’s response was that it wasn’t against their terms and conditions. And the poster would assert that the post is ok because of freedom of speech.
Is it right for that post to be in a public forum?
I would say no.[/quote]
I'd say no as well. It's inciting racism or hate speech. Not the same as posting a vaccine bottle with a photoshopped expiry date.

I’m interested in why it took covid in particular for you to change your views?

@LoveComesQuickly
@CrunchyCarrot
@RichTeaRichTea

I shall look for that book - thank you. I agree it is a big problem, and I was utterly shocked about Facebook’s response to the post.

Crunchy - the problem with free speech, is that people can use that as a way to be racist. Which is harmful. Interestingly the same poster was very anti vaxx - and was posting vaccine misinformation. Again I would say this is harmful.

Rich tea - I think during Covid there have been a number of people posting misinformation, or anti vaxx info under freedom of speech. Clearly some things are not free to be said - e.g. racism, bullying etc. It’s harmful. I’d never questioned that. But should people be free to post misinformation if the result is that it causes harm to others?

So it’s harmful content v’s freedom of speech. Where do you draw the line?

@crunchycarrot

Under ‘freedom of speech’ could I start a group advocating smoking in pregnancy?

It was going on a huge amount before - brexit is one example I can think of, and MMR of course. I don’t know the answer. One thing that is tricky is that depending on your aim, simply banning even complete nonsense can be counterproductive

If I found a niche doctor who agreed with me, posted articled by him apparently based on medical research - encouraged others that smoking in pregnancy is fine because this doctor says so. Started an online group. Should that be allowed?

What do you think could or should happen if someone decided to do that?

I mean, it’s not illegal, as far as I know. Do you think it should be?

@RichTeaRichTea I think the hosting site should regulate and remove that sort of content. And regulate far better than they do now.
I think misinformation is dangerous.
I think there is a point where freedom of speech becomes harmful.

I've been interested in this concept for some time. It ramped up quite a bit during Trump's election campaign, and Twitter use by ordinary people exploded. This was not necessarily a good thing, as not all of them knew how to use it effectively or properly. What is fact? What is opinion? What is a trusted source? Unfortunately, after hearing a story from a dodgy source, this is often repeated as fact without a check from a secondary source first.

These problems are amplified in the Covid environment. People are particularly vulnerable to misinformation - the onus cannot be expected to be place on the receiver of the information to check if it is correct. It should be correct in the first instance.

These companies need far more regulation and we need new laws to address this. The whole world needs to work together on this.
The companies are commercially driven and use algorithms to their advantage. They currently have far too much power in this world. It is positively dangerous. However, at the moment there is Covid and climate change issues so governments have been, as usual, too slow to respond.
Manipulating people is not freedom of speech. Cyberwar fare is a very big threat.

I wouldn't worry about posters agreeing with Facebook misinformation. They want to agree. They don't want to think because it is just too much effort.

It is the same on here. The same names piling on with the same old antivaxx tropes on every post. You can even tell who they are when they change name.

They need each other to bolster their opinions. They repeat each other. It is ok, because most intelligent people can see that and draw their own conclusions.

Surely no-one is convinced by the endless threads apparently started by a wide-eyed 'innocent' wondering why the unvaccinated are being er, 'forced' to do whatever it is when all the 'evidence' shows that vaccination 'doesn't work' or whatever the froth de jour is.

@CrunchyCarrot

It's also up to people to use their brains and verify what others are posting. Many people being shocked just tells me they aren't doing this. We need more education to get people to engage their brains, much as one (hopefully) does when receiving scam phone calls or emails.

Also, offense is taken, not given. I cannot control how others react to what I write.

I don't think that's fair in the current context though @CrunchyCarrot!

Of course there are things that any rationale person should be able to dismiss, but there's a huge number of people using a doctor/prof title, and propagating claims that sound like they could be plausible. It requires a huge amount of time to actually dig out what they're referring to, and explain that no, this paper didn't actually show the vaccine will make you infertile/make you more sick if infected/cause cancer or neurodegeneration.

See Mike Yeadon, Clare Craig, the HART group, FLCCC, for some of the key players in what seems to be a huge drive to push out misinformation.

Good quality science can always be deliberately cherrypicked and misinterpreted to push anti-vaccine and COVID-denying claims

You see it here all the time - a wide eyed posting stating, oh so now I'm not allowed to post scientific papers?

You aren't when you're deliberatly misinterpreting the conclusions to push your anti-vaccine agenda, and ignoring the many other papers that paint a bigger picture of evidence.

We don’t have free speech, you aren’t allowed to say what you like without consequence, particularly if what you say is threatening or inciting violence.

Private platforms in particular don’t have free speech. The owners can delete whatever they like for whatever reason.

I agree noblegiraffe

www.protocol.com/online-safety-bill-jail-time

Let’s be clear what harmful content is. Harmful content is things like child abuse images, revenge porn, violent pornographers and images of torture and animal abuse. It’s terrorism groups and pedophiles who target our kids.

Harmful content is not a post you don’t like or someone talking about why they don’t want the vaccine.

I’m suspicious this is happening now and I dont agree with the government deciding what I can and can’t read.

In 2020, the UK government spent more than £164 million on their covid advertising fear campaign. They did this with the help of psychologists and it was well documented with clear goals on how to specifically increase people’s level of fear.

This is why we were repeatedly shown pictures of dead bodies face down in the street. We were led to believe that people were walking down the street and poof, they dropped dead from coronavirus.

We were shown endless images of mass graves and people in hazmat suits. Images of nightingale hospitals that were nothing more than a stunt. These images caused real psychological harm to people.

Why do you think they did that op?

Do you think the same people who did that, the people who didn’t follow their own rules and who gave their pals million pound deals should be allowed to censor what information we can access and what we say?

Because one things for sure, we will never again hear about any dodgy deals ever again. This bill is not because they care about you and they are worried you might see an expired syringe. This bill is for them, so they can operate in private and you won’t be allowed to criticise them.

Agree OP.