Misinformation and Covid

[SpringKit]

A few weeks ago, on Facebook - a loose friend of mine shared a dodgy looking post from another public account.
I clicked onto this account and was pretty shocked by what Facebook was allowing to be displayed on public posts. Lots of Islamophobic posts on this account, anti immigration etc - but also Covid misinformation. One post was of a vaccine packet with a ‘supposed’ vaccine packet with an expiry date that was pre Covid. A quick image search showed it had been photo shopped - Facebook eventually removed the post - although this wasn’t immediate. A great number of her friends commented, shocked, believing the packet was real. So I would expect the resulting behaviour would be to consolidate anti-vaxx views in these posters - reject the jab, and perhaps cause themselves harm based on misinformation.
I’d just like to hear views on misinformation and free speech.
Interestingly this Facebook poster had a great many posts about ‘free speech’ ‘her right to offend people” etc.
I’ve changed my beliefs around free speech somewhat in light of Covid.
Surely there is a point when free speech becomes harmful - bullying, misinformation, racism, advocating harm to children etc?

@MarbleQueen

www.protocol.com/online-safety-bill-jail-time

Let’s be clear what harmful content is. Harmful content is things like child abuse images, revenge porn, violent pornographers and images of torture and animal abuse. It’s terrorism groups and pedophiles who target our kids.

Harmful content is not a post you don’t like or someone talking about why they don’t want the vaccine.

I’m suspicious this is happening now and I dont agree with the government deciding what I can and can’t read.

mm I disagree @MarbleQueen

Anti-vaccine groups have caused preventable disability and death by coercing people into not having the vaccine.

They have caused further damage (and made profits) by promoting COVID preventatives or treatments for which there is no evidence they're effective. Again, leading to preventable deaths and disability.

You don't think this is harmful? I don't think a one-upmanship over what content is more damaging is particularly helpful. Of course the things you list are damaging, doesn't mean healh disinformation isn't as well.

@MarbleQueen I think fake news and misinformation - both considered harmful online content.

@MarbleQueen your comment about the UK government. This was not just our government, this was in the media worldwide, and backed by the view of the most esteemed health care professionals worldwide. That’s why your argument doesn’t work.

MarbleQueen your comment about the UK government. This was not just our government, this was in the media worldwide, and backed by the view of the most esteemed health care professionals worldwide. That’s why your argument doesn’t work.

Are you suggesting that the fake images of dead people in the street were backed by esteemed health care professionals?

It's quite scary, that some people believe anything without knowing the truth, or doesn't even want to know the blatant fact.

This morning I've read a comment by someone saying that vaccine killed more people than covid, on other forum, reposted from a face book page. And that person was a teacher. (not UK)
Where did she get that info, and why does she believe that, I don't know. But some people would believe anything, and anyone trying to reason is controlled/brainwashed for them. It's truly scary, and misinformation is dangerous.

Btw the book I recommended has nothing to do with Covid. It's about misinformation on the Trump and Brexit campaigns.

Even in science there is seldom one right answer or one correct way of doing things - different studies present different findings and we have the right to critique them. IMO some of the views shared about covid would be better described as alternative information rather than deliberate misinformation but it all gets lumped together. People with a well intentioned difference of opinion are silenced along with the people who are deliberately trying to mislead and cause harm such as in the example you gave about the doctored images.

@MarbleQueen

But the most esteemed healthcare professionals worldwide are not anti-vaxx, and agree that restrictions are needed.

I’m not aware of fake pictures of dead people in MSM. I’m not pro government, I don’t trust them. But I’m not using this as a reason to challenge the best health advice.

@containsnuts I agree, and that debate is needed.

If it results in a positive outcome.

But Covid misinformation, fake news - will result in harm to others. And this is the problem.

I guess it’s the line between an alternative viewpoint and deliberate misinformation.
But those with an alternative viewpoint need to be aware enough to see where that line is crossed. And often doesn’t seem to be the case.

Also, some of the more controversial science, publications tend to have an unsavoury political agenda which may not be obvious to those reading.

Dead people in the streets?? Dear lord, what on earth were you watching?? Maybe in Brazil tragically, reported on the news, but UK govt propaganda? Give it a rest.

@containsnuts

Even in science there is seldom one right answer or one correct way of doing things - different studies present different findings and we have the right to critique them. IMO some of the views shared about covid would be better described as alternative information rather than deliberate misinformation but it all gets lumped together. People with a well intentioned difference of opinion are silenced along with the people who are deliberately trying to mislead and cause harm such as in the example you gave about the doctored images.

Scientific evidence will generally coverge around a point of view though, when you get enough high quality sources of information.

IMO some of the views shared about covid would be better described as alternative information rather than deliberate misinformation

What are you specifically thinking of @containsnuts?

Dead people in the streets?? Dear lord, what on earth were you watching?? Maybe in Brazil tragically, reported on the news, but UK govt propaganda? Give it a rest

I was watching the main uk channels. Like everyone else. We all saw these news reports and images and I’m not sure why people are now pretending we didn’t. There was plenty of threads about it at the time. Some people have short memories. Here’s one of hundreds.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/31/a-man-lies-dead-in-the-street-the-image-that-captures-the-wuhan-coronavirus-crisis

Anti-vaccine groups have caused preventable disability and death by coercing people into not having the vaccine.They have caused further damage (and made profits) by promoting COVID preventatives or treatments for which there is no evidence they're effective. Again, leading to preventable deaths and disability

I would be interested in hearing more about this if you have the information.How many people became disabled because of an anti vaccine group? Do you have any idea of figures?

You do realise that without evidence to support your claim you could be accused of spreading misinformation. Would you support that?

Who is it who gets to decide what’s true and what isn’t?

Last year there were claims that companies handling the pcr tests were selling our DNA. Anyone claiming this was quickly dismissed as a loon and it was repeatedly fact checked and found to be false.

It wasn’t false and it has happened. How do you feel about that information being dismissed? Aren’t you curious about why it was censored?

The bottom line is that any censorship is going to benefit the government far more than it will benefit us.

@MarbleQueen
I do remember that picture - and yes it was widely circulated. Not just in the UK but all over the world. So this is why your assertion that it’s some sort of campaign by the UK government doesn’t ring true to me. It appeared in the media all over the world in countries run by left wing/right wing governments. The picture I don’t think is fake as such, there is perhaps no context as to how he died, or if he even died of Covid. But it does show the situation in China at that time.

I think - I’d always check any piece of info with worldwide media outlets, the various fact checking website online.
Granted our government are very shady, I dislike them intently at the moment.
But it’s separating what is good healthcare advice from my dislike of the government.
Yes governments should be held accountable, and that discussion is vital.
But to challenge what the vast majority of professors, doctors, peer reviewed research are advocating worldwide is a very different kettle of fish - and is causing serious harm or death to others.

By the same reasoning, I wouldn't challenge healthcare advice that states that I shouldn’t smoke or drink during pregnancy - just because an unverified piece of fake science/hearsay may say that Guinness is good for my baby.

The way to limit fake information is to tax information sharing. Even at seemingly token amounts.

Seriously! Cut off the revenue stream so that quality is improved, and the shit will mostly clear off, not so profitable after all.

[quote SpringKit]@MarbleQueen your comment about the UK government. This was not just our government, this was in the media worldwide, and backed by the view of the most esteemed health care professionals worldwide. That’s why your argument doesn’t work.[/quote]
Everyone else does it is not an argument. Expecting our government to model a calm rational response in a crisis is a pretty minimum standard. The weaponisation of science and rare effects of both covid and the vaccines on every side has been a low point during this pandemic, as has the name calling and shaming.

Just because you believe you're right it doesn't justify twisting facts, shaming and name calling and using fear to drive behaviour. I don't care what side you're on.

[quote SpringKit]@crunchycarrot

Under ‘freedom of speech’ could I start a group advocating smoking in pregnancy?[/quote]
Well yes. Of course you could. What do you think would happen if you did apart from being laughed at? I'm sure some people think the risks of smoking have been greatly exaggerated and there's people lobbying to have it brought back in to pubs. Doesn't mean it'll happen but people are allowed to disagree with ' the science' (which isn't really a thing as science is an exploration. It's not something fixed and immutable. It's meant to develop and change).

@MarbleQueen
Yes. I have very little faith in our government. They have used Covid for their gain, awarding contracts etc.
But I DO have faith in science. And I can see what is good medical advice. And I absolutely don’t think people should be deterred from following that.

The success of the HPV vaccine highlights what an extraordinary difference medical science can make to people’s lives.
Unfortunately our government have caused people to question the science by being untrustworthy/complacent and this is wrong.

@marblequeen

As I said:

"Anti-vaccine groups have caused preventable disability and death by coercing people into not having the vaccine.They have caused further damage (and made profits) by promoting COVID preventatives or treatments for which there is no evidence they're effective. Again, leading to preventable deaths and disability"

I would be interested in hearing more about this if you have the information.How many people became disabled because of an anti vaccine group? Do you have any idea of figures?You do realise that without evidence to support your claim you could be accused of spreading misinformation. Would you support that?

Think you've accused me of this before. Population surveys have demonstrated many are turning down the vaccine because of mistaken beliefs about it's safety or efficacy. This has also been confirmed by WHO, the FHA, PHE.

Even if this wasn't the case, I'm not sure how you could try and claim that people aren't being scared off by claims like "the vaccines cause infertily/misccariage", "they lead cancer/prion disease", "everyone who's vaccinated will be dead in two years", "vaccinated people are dying of COVID at higher rates". These claims are propogated by anti-vaccine groups and all over places like telegram, bitchute, oddesee where they filter down to forums like MN.

Who is it who gets to decide what’s true and what isn’t?
I think this is your issue. No one gets to "decide". Misinformation are claims which are not backed by robust scientific evidence.

Last year there were claims that companies handling the pcr tests were selling our DNA. Anyone claiming this was quickly dismissed as a loon and it was repeatedly fact checked and found to be false.

Being dismissed "as a loon" isn't the same thing as it being deleleted or censored from facebook though. People can still read it and decide for themselves. This is completely different from health misinformation ie "vaccines cause infertility" which shouldn't remain up to cause fear and anxiety.

It wasn’t false and it has happened.
You have a source for this I assume?

Many people get all the news from Facebook, yeah I know , particularly overseas.

Which is why there are continuing arguments between governments and Facebook about content. Facebook saying it's only a publishing platform to let personal users share, the opposite argument being dumb fucks believe the hype.

If you are concerned about misinformation badger your MP to make social media platforms accountable. I mean many are trying.

Free speech, dumb speech, hate speech....... that's a separate cauldron.