Lockdown in Austria/Germany

[Daisy829]

So I’ve seen on the news that unvaccinated people are being told to lock down again in Austria and Germany may follow. It got me thinking……if they have to wfh are they allowed to leave the house to take the children to school or childcare? Not sure why they are locking down. Presume to encourage people to get vaccinated & protect healthcare?

Personally I am vaccinated but appreciate peoples right to choose so I’m not sure how fair this strategy is really.

@RuleOfCat

Where did you read about a lockdown for unvaccinated people in Germany? Because I'm in Germany and it's certainly not happening here right now. In certain states you can only access non-necessary events and venues if you can prove you're vaxxed or recovered, but that's the case in other EU countries too (France and Italy?). There are no restrictions on anyone going out, or meeting with friends, and everyone - vaccinated or not - has to wear a medical mask in shops, doctors, public transport etc. The situation is changing all the time though. And the drastic policy in Austria seems to be working to some extent, judging from the queues at vax centres today. I wouldn't have voted for it myself, but I can see the rationale behind it.

I'm in Italy and read earlier that schools are closed here and everyone is Very Worried and that all our civil liberties have been removed. News to all of us. DD has a written test tomorrow in her (completely open without one single Covid case since September) school so she did ask me to double check because of course the random MNer whose next door neighbour's second cousin's daughter in law who married an Italian must be right!

@RuleOfCat

Where did you read about a lockdown for unvaccinated people in Germany? Because I'm in Germany and it's certainly not happening here right now. In certain states you can only access non-necessary events and venues if you can prove you're vaxxed or recovered, but that's the case in other EU countries too (France and Italy?). There are no restrictions on anyone going out, or meeting with friends, and everyone - vaccinated or not - has to wear a medical mask in shops, doctors, public transport etc. The situation is changing all the time though. And the drastic policy in Austria seems to be working to some extent, judging from the queues at vax centres today. I wouldn't have voted for it myself, but I can see the rationale behind it.

I read here that there is a push for uniform 2G rules throughout Germany and that would be similar to what Austria's doing.

www.spiegel.de/international/coronavirus-in-deutschland-wenn-impfverweigerer-auf-ein-land-ohne-politische-fuehrung-treffen-1636729575-a-1495255a-25af-4b8e-9727-4ea7f26db55f

Not vaccine but virus of course, thank you.

Personal view is there is no grand conspiracy, just a lot of money making, poor decisions (protecting certain ages at the expense of others), at$e covering, incompetence, opportunism (implementation of ID passports in places where this isn’t currently really accepted) and ego driven power hungry politicians. Some countries have additional agendas, eg I suspect for the us it is good cover to hide the annual winter failing of the NHS (major reform/sell off due?) and who could ever see the impact of Brexit now.

Most countries are blindly following the approach that the vaccine is the saviour and there is therefore an obsession with getting it into everyone’s arms. What happened to taking a vaccine to protect yourself based on clear, unbiased and obvious health benefits?. Given this, locking down the unvaccinated is clever if you want to get the vaccination rates up. Nothing else will push people faster to get vaccinated and ‘join the club’ more than seeing others with freedoms that you don’t have. I’d guess coming up to Christmas this is the prime time to do this.

It’s an approach that is further causing friction in society and one that I think is very misguided. I’m extremely uncomfortable with how things are shaping up and in time I’m sure we will see it did nothing for helping ‘control’ covid.

most countries are following the same path on most things, I suspect this is because they don’t want to be seen to be doing less than others. It will be interesting to see how this plays out as there will always be outliers who will want to follow their own path for economic gain (India) and outliers as their population will not get aboard the jab express.

Like other virus in history, this will fade into the background as we all become more (naturally through infection) immune. Governments will pat themselves on the back and most people will celebrate their success. The reality is more collateral damage will have been caused though their actions but this will be hidden away and not given any daily focus. The rich will be richer and the politicians will have moved on to avoid any accountability.

"I read here that there is a push for uniform 2G rules throughout Germany and that would be similar to what Austria's doing. "

I can't open the bloody Spiegel article, it's behind a paywall. But standard 2G proposals at present do not involve a lockdown for unvaccinated people at all - although I suspect Karl Lauterbach would love that. There are no restrictions on them leaving the house - just that they can't go into most enclosed non-essential venues. That's very different from the Austrian lockdown, which is more or less the lockdown model from last spring, only leaving the house for specific necessary reasons like shopping or exercise.
It's not even the proposed 2G+ plans, whereby everyone, included vaccinated people, would have to keep 1.5 metres distance and wear a mask or have a negative test.

That's not to say that Germany definitely won't introduce an Austria-style lockdown at some point, but I think a few other measures would be tried out first. Bavaria certainly needs to so something quick.

@RuleOfCat

"I read here that there is a push for uniform 2G rules throughout Germany and that would be similar to what Austria's doing. "

I can't open the bloody Spiegel article, it's behind a paywall. But standard 2G proposals at present do not involve a lockdown for unvaccinated people at all - although I suspect Karl Lauterbach would love that. There are no restrictions on them leaving the house - just that they can't go into most enclosed non-essential venues. That's very different from the Austrian lockdown, which is more or less the lockdown model from last spring, only leaving the house for specific necessary reasons like shopping or exercise.
It's not even the proposed 2G+ plans, whereby everyone, included vaccinated people, would have to keep 1.5 metres distance and wear a mask or have a negative test.

That's not to say that Germany definitely won't introduce an Austria-style lockdown at some point, but I think a few other measures would be tried out first. Bavaria certainly needs to so something quick.

“That is in reality a lockdown for the unvaccinated that’s on the way,” Dirk Wiese, deputy caucus leader for the SPD in German parliament, said on ZDF television on Tuesday.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-16/german-covid-deaths-spike-as-lockdown-for-unvaccinated-nears

Some people seem to be reporting it with maximum drama but It looks to me like 2G with an additional stay at home component except for work school, medical help or essential shopping etc.

I guess that is quite lockdown-ish.

When you find out how often you have to have a flu vaccine it's going to blow your mind.

You don't 'have to have' a flu vaccine and there are no restrictions if you don't. I've never had one hand probably never will) and it makes no difference to my day to day life.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

When you find out how often you have to have a flu vaccine it's going to blow your mind.

You don't 'have to have' a flu vaccine and there are no restrictions if you don't. I've never had one hand probably never will) and it makes no difference to my day to day life.

Apologies.

The start of that sentence should read

When you find out how often you have to have a flu vaccine for it to remain fully effective...

And it's a one dose vaccine.

We don't know what dose the coronavirus is yet. Could be three. The evidence certainly points that way at the moment.

I just can’t do it every year, I’m already stressed about having the booster.

I’ve discussed it with DH and he’s fine for me not to have the booster every year if I can’t face it even if it means we can no longer go abroad.

I won't be having a booster every year. 🤷Nor a flu jag past this winter.
The worst cold/ flu period I've had was after being stuck at home with back problems. Looking back my vitamin D levels must have been through the floor.
We have an unhealthy population problem that no government seems ready to tackle. Oh and a permanent winter bed crisis and ditto.

We are up to 14000+ cases a day in Austria (population 9 million); in the worst hit region, they’re storing dead bodies in hospital corridors because the mortuaries are full. In a country with a functioning healthcare system and four times the amount of ICU beds as the UK.

This lockdown is far from strict, as CupcakeTowers says; it’s 10 days long and the unvaccinated basically can’t (shouldn’t) go into restaurants or nightclubs for this period. The Austrian way of checking this is on a fairly random spot-check basis.

It seems fairly sure that the whole country will have to go into lockdown anyway; we just don’t have enough vaccinated people and the virus is spreading fast.

They have to convince the unvaccinated that the jab does work at the same time as convincing the vaccinated it doesn't work so they get the boosters...

This type of mixed messaging is why they should focus on boosters.

If the unvaccinated haven't had a vaccine by now then the vast majority never will.

@sourcherie

We are up to 14000+ cases a day in Austria (population 9 million); in the worst hit region, they’re storing dead bodies in hospital corridors because the mortuaries are full. In a country with a functioning healthcare system and four times the amount of ICU beds as the UK.

This lockdown is far from strict, as CupcakeTowers says; it’s 10 days long and the unvaccinated basically can’t (shouldn’t) go into restaurants or nightclubs for this period. The Austrian way of checking this is on a fairly random spot-check basis.

It seems fairly sure that the whole country will have to go into lockdown anyway; we just don’t have enough vaccinated people and the virus is spreading fast.

Is this maybe because it's the first time Delta has really hit Austria and it's just happened at once?

User135644 No, it’s been here all year. People felt it was all over in the summer; in the countryside they thought it was just a problem in Vienna - we went to places where they said oh, there’s no covid here - now it’s cold, everyone’s been socialising indoors etc. It was predictable, to be honest 🤷🏻‍♀️

@sourcherie
Aaaand the total lockdown has been announced :P! Very predictable really. Obviously it's limited to two provinces now but everyone knows that will change fairly quickly. Especially in the run-up to Christmas, there will be so many people escaping the borders to go shopping or visiting a market.

@Daisy829 Forgot to answer the question earlier! Yes, Austria is in the unique position of offering free and unlimited lateral flow or PCR tests to all its residents. They actually have a very good system set up where people do home PCR tests, throw them into a collection box the next day and will get results within 24hrs, all free of charge. This was hailed as a game changer in summer and actually worked quite well. However it might have contributed to the unwillingness to vax because it was too easy/cheap for unvaccinated people to obtain the test results they need for work and leisure.

The system is obviously hopelessly overloaded now due to the massive rise in infections and stricter rules. People had to wait 3+ days for results, meaning some were not technically allowed to go to work (but most places turned a blind eye). The latest regulation is that even double or triple vaxxed people need to produce a PCR test for entry to events or restaurants which will probably break the testing system even further.

I see all those masks they wear are doing a great job in Germany right now.

An excellent job.

nods sagely

@ILookAtTheFloor

I see all those masks they wear are doing a great job in Germany right now.

An excellent job.

nods sagely

Germany took away the mask mandate in schools in October.

But mostly, this is what covid does in the winter-time.

You need a high % of the population vaccinated, and whatever NPIs are necessary to keep transmission low when more people are mixing indoors.

Masks help. So does anything that reduces the amount of air you breathe in that somebody else just breathed out - like HEPA filters, opening windows, social distancing.

So does anything that reduces the number of contacts people have each day like working from home, remote learning etc.

In cold weather all countries need to have all the layers of covid protection in play in order to keep transmission low and avoid covid chaos.

So new cases hit 65,000 in Germany yesterday, and some patients have had to be taken to Italy for hospitalisation from Freising. The numbers are not looking good.