What's the end game?

[UndertonesOfCake]

Lockdowns were always said to be a thing "until we have a vaccine"

Except now we have a vaccine, and most eligible people are double jabbed.

... and now there's talk of reintroducing restrictions - plan B, plan C... full lockdown again?

I'm not prepared to live in a state of perpetual restrictions - I'll take the (relatively small) risk of dying.

I don't understand how they think this is all going to end, if vaccines have been insufficient? What else are we waiting for?

Apologies for typos, one handed typing with a snoozing DC

Older people however, and those who are vulnerable - I see a mixture. Some are trying to live life. Others have become so cowed, they are not quite themselves any more.

@lightand
I wear a mask and socially distance when it can be useful (i.e., public transport, supermarket). I do LFTs twice a week and would isolate if I got a postive result.

I'm not "cowed", I'm not personally concerned about getting COVID, I'm just doing what I can to potentially reduce chains of transmission.

It is baffling to me after almost two years that posters don't seem to understand that low level suppression policies are what will minimise the chances of more stringent, damaging lockdown policies being necessary because cases have breached safe levels.

By throwing out the idea of any kind of supression measure, you are basically arguing for lockdown

@henlee

Older people however, and those who are vulnerable - I see a mixture. Some are trying to live life. Others have become so cowed, they are not quite themselves any more.

@lightand
I wear a mask and socially distance when it can be useful (i.e., public transport, supermarket). I do LFTs twice a week and would isolate if I got a postive result.

I'm not "cowed", I'm not personally concerned about getting COVID, I'm just doing what I can to potentially reduce chains of transmission.

It is baffling to me after almost two years that posters don't seem to understand that low level suppression policies are what will minimise the chances of more stringent, damaging lockdown policies being necessary because cases have breached safe levels.

By throwing out the idea of any kind of supression measure, you are basically arguing for lockdown

But cases are falling anyway without these measures being needed.

I suggest a dose of Andrew Lilico!

But cases are falling anyway without these measures being needed.
I suggest a dose of Andrew Lilico!

If he's right that hurruh, that's fabulous and many people will have been wearing masks, LFT-testing and distancing in places like supermarkets uncessarily.

These measures have very little impact on the individual or economy (compared to things like lockdown, school closures, or mandatory distancing in hospitality) so I do not see the issue if it turns out that they were being implemented uncessarily.

If he's wrong? Then these supression measures could mean we avert the need for damaging restrictions like disrupted education and closure of hospitality. But the time it's abundantly clear supression measures are needed, it's too late, and more restrictive policies are needed...

And you believe this is a great thing to do - and should be encouraged - in a pandemic that is spread via aerosols? And you're actually having a dig at the elderly and vulnerable who are choosing not to live this way for the moment? Your lack of empathy is staggering.

@lightand

I think the endgame will be different for different people, depending on age, health, where you live in the world, etc.

I went to swimming and soft play with loads of people 30 and under this week. Saw about 9 masks in total amongst say 250 people?

Younger people seem to me to be living their life. Great.

Older people however, and those who are vulnerable - I see a mixture. Some are trying to live life. Others have become so cowed, they are not quite themselves any more.

Other countries - mixture isnt it? There is not the same "problem" with covid, in some 3rd world countries[apart from South America] that was generally expected.

Sorry - the previous post was sent too early! However ...

And you believe this is a great thing to do - and should be encouraged - in a pandemic that is spread via aerosols? And you're actually having a dig at the elderly and vulnerable who are choosing not to live this way for the moment? Your lack of empathy is staggering.

@henlee

Older people however, and those who are vulnerable - I see a mixture. Some are trying to live life. Others have become so cowed, they are not quite themselves any more.

@lightand
I wear a mask and socially distance when it can be useful (i.e., public transport, supermarket). I do LFTs twice a week and would isolate if I got a postive result.

I'm not "cowed", I'm not personally concerned about getting COVID, I'm just doing what I can to potentially reduce chains of transmission.

It is baffling to me after almost two years that posters don't seem to understand that low level suppression policies are what will minimise the chances of more stringent, damaging lockdown policies being necessary because cases have breached safe levels.

By throwing out the idea of any kind of supression measure, you are basically arguing for lockdown

You dont sound like you are in the older and vulnerable category.

By throwing out the idea of any kind of supression measure, you are basically arguing for lockdown

No!

Let people individually do what they want[which is not having a dig at the elderly and vulnerable either @Dishhh!]

You dont sound like you are in the older and vulnerable category.

No @lightand, I said this in my post?

Presumably given this you think I'm even more "cowed" than those who still wear masks who are genuinely at risk.

Just giving the rational as to why the specific suppression measures I listed are beneficial to everyone, whilst having limited harms (compared to other NPIs and an uncontrolled pandemic) to the individual, society, and the economy.

@lightand

By throwing out the idea of any kind of supression measure, you are basically arguing for lockdown

No!

Let people individually do what they want[which is not having a dig at the elderly and vulnerable either @Dishhh!]

What do you mean "no"?

There are measures that can be taken, that will reduce the chances of the pandemic getting out of control in the UK, whilst having little negative impact.

With no measures, there is the chance the cases will breach safe levels, which then requires more stringent restrictions to get under control.

@henlee

You dont sound like you are in the older and vulnerable category.

No @lightand, I said this in my post?

Presumably given this you think I'm even more "cowed" than those who still wear masks who are genuinely at risk.

Just giving the rational as to why the specific suppression measures I listed are beneficial to everyone, whilst having limited harms (compared to other NPIs and an uncontrolled pandemic) to the individual, society, and the economy.

No idea where you are supposed to be saying that you are not older and vulnerable, and therefore not in the category I am talking about.

But hey ho, I have learnt a long time ago not to bother to go into any depth of conversation in this sort of situation.

I couldnt care less whether you cower yourself as it wasnt you I was talking about!

The endgame will be when the whole world is vaccinated to the same level as the rich nations.

@ifonly4 - I think it's been conclusively proved that we cannot have herd immunity with Covid. You only have to see how many people get it twice to realise that.

@Oldgoat2021

The booster doubles effectiveness compared to two doses (95% more protection). Also Delta is likely to be the final variant, it's the perfect form of the virus, maybe some small slightly more transmissible variants but nothing major. So it will soon burn itself out. It will be endemic as we go into 2022 and get our boosters.

Is this scientific? where did you read this wondrous statistic? How can a booster of the same vaccine DOUBLE the 2 previous vaccinations? this is more scaremongering to make people rush for a 3rd, 4th vaccination every 6 months Believe it if you like but I am not having any further boosters (I have been invited but say NO to any more)

I might have got that wrong and it's that it restores waning immunity to 95.6%. Think this was the study:

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02249-2/fulltext

Was in the news around 21st October.

@lightand

Let people individually do what they want

But you're not actually meaning this - what you actually mean is allow the healthy people 'do what they want'. You've said in previous posts in this thread alone that many people are too frightened to participate in life - or life as you perceive it anyway - so how does your statement above fit with this? Why cant they, too, do what they want?