Vaccinating kids

[Hotcoffee10]

Just wondering, now it is clear that the vaccine does not provide long term protection is everyone still keen to vaccinate their kids? I was okay with DD having one (she is 12) but yearly injections for the rest of her life doesn’t sit well with me. Covid is presumably not going to magically vanish - so it seems once they have a jab there will be pressure to get it again next year. Anyone got any thoughts?

[quote Hotcoffee10]@Mynameismargot seriously? Do you watch the news? Yes no previous vaccine was mandated but we live in unprecedented times. Vaccine passports in Scotland, England too soon no doubt, sacking carers, nhs staff to follow soon. Worldwide much the same. Maybe you think it won’t happen and I hope not but you can’t say it’s not a legitimate concern!
For the avoidance of doubt I am not anti vaccination my children are fully vaccinated as per UK schedule and I have had both Covid jabs as has my husband. Still concerned about giving the oldest the Covid jab however and also that mission creep is going to extend to primary kids soon.[/quote]
You are being ridiculous, to be honest. Vaccine passports have been a thing where I live for months now, they are nothing to be afraid of, the sky hasn't fallen in. Carers work with vulnerable people as far as I know we won't be sending off our children to do that any time soon.

You might not think of yourself as an antivaxxer but you sure are soaking up their nonsense. 'Mission creep', mandatory vaccines, 'starting down that road' are all statements based on absolutely nothing in reality.

Well I’ll return to this thread in a year or two and if mandatory yearly vaccination to attend school in the UK isn’t a thing, I will be delighted to acknowledge the wisdom of MN is correct and I was wrong. Really hoping to be wrong.

With kids being such low risk from any really bad symptoms as it is, it just doesn't seem worth it to me.

This is where the argument falls apart, really.

“Very low risk of covid” fine, no problems here!
“Very low risk of side effects from vaccine” Deadly! Avoid! Serious side effects!

If you don’t want your child to have the vaccine, that’s easy enough isn’t it? If you don’t want your child to catch covid, it’s a lot more difficult at the moment.

Disclaimer: (stop reading if you’ve seen my posts before, it’ll bore you to tears) but ds (healthy, slim, no underlying conditions) had covid and it left him with heart problems. Still, over 18 months on. It might clear up soon, it might be lifelong. He’s 12. Imagine how that feels for him. But luckily, it’s rare, right? Yet more common than the “serious side effects” from the vaccine. (Ignoring the anti-vaxxers favourite discredited VAERS study, of course.)

See also:
long term unknown effects of the vaccine = might exist, so vaccine must be avoided
Long terms effects of novel virus, known to cause organ and neurological damage, similar to long term effects of SARS = probably just made up or just people exaggerating things, nothing to see here!

It’s a very pick and choose approach to viewing risk.

I dont mention side effects from the vaccine.
There also was no argument. Its the conclusion I've came to. Whether I'm right or wrong, my decision is based off of that. Just as you have made your decision.
We are all doing what we feel is best for our own situations and families. Its all we can do.

TheChip
Sorry, I wasn’t at all clear (edited for length and made it weird!)

To clarify - the “argument” by the op that the vaccines “carry serious risk” and viewpoints like yours (which is valid of course!) that kids are very low risk happens a lot, but I’ve never found anyone who can explain why the low risk of one is ok, but the low risk of the other is not. And that point should have been directed at the op, not you.

@Pinetreesfall

No my son didn't have it (nor the flu nasal spray which seems to be going round) Interestingly the children of the medics at our school didn't have the Covid vaccine either. Not sure what that says!

I trust that any doctor releasing private medical information about their own children (when that medical information goes against what the WHO and CMOs have advised) has been disciplined? For whatever reason they have chosen not to vaccinate their own children, any sharing of that information in a context where other people might be influenced by that decision (as the medics in question will know only too well) is a very serious breach and would put them in very hot water with their trust and the GMC. What a numpty! If you know, I guess other parents know too, and someone is more than likely to report the doctor, if they haven't already.

Natural infection has a lot of potential side effects and the unknown long term effects of actual infection are unknown but there have been studied showing impact of the brain kidneys and even ageing of the immune system by about 10 years.

Some people take the view that these are unimportant and trust the immune system to fight off the virus. At the same time they do not trust the immune system to fight off copies of a spike protein and are seriously worried about the long term effects of said immune response to this protein. This does not make much sense to me but perhaps there's an emotional protective response.

Either way let's hope that we don't live to suffer or regret any long term effects ( whether that be natural infection) or vaccine response

@BewareTheLibrarians

TheChip Sorry, I wasn’t at all clear (edited for length and made it weird!)

To clarify - the “argument” by the op that the vaccines “carry serious risk” and viewpoints like yours (which is valid of course!) that kids are very low risk happens a lot, but I’ve never found anyone who can explain why the low risk of one is ok, but the low risk of the other is not. And that point should have been directed at the op, not you.

No worries.

I think I can answer your question though, still. At least from my point.
The low risk from infection for kids makes more sense to me since it is well known that the majority of kids are affected so little that without a test, there can be little to no evidence that they are actually infected. How that pans out long term, as in way down the line, I really don't know.
But that feels like a better option than a vaccine that could come with its own effects.

To me, there's a risk either way, but it feels with the vaccine that I could be potentially adding an unnecessary risk of negative effects that might never have happened without it. Those who are more at risk, I completely agree that the vaccine is the better option. But for me and my kids, personally, I feel much more comfortable waiting this out until it becomes clear to me that the vaccine is the safer and better option. Which is a risk in itself, I suppose.
Either way it's a risk but this feel likes the least risk to me.

I agree OP. There is far too much money to be made out of boosters - of course we'll all be pressurized to have them next year. No one knows what affect pumping all that mercury into your system will have long term.

So much moaning about vaccines when we are extremely privileged to even have a vaccine to offer.

@Hotcoffee10

Well I’ll return to this thread in a year or two and if mandatory yearly vaccination to attend school in the UK isn’t a thing, I will be delighted to acknowledge the wisdom of MN is correct and I was wrong. Really hoping to be wrong.

I also hope you are wrong @Hotcoffee10 but I have a feeling you might not be.

@Aishah231

I agree OP. There is far too much money to be made out of boosters - of course we'll all be pressurized to have them next year. No one knows what affect pumping all that mercury into your system will have long term.

All what mercury?

Chances are it may just become like the flu vaccine. One each year, in autumn:winter when it's more likely needed.

Initially for more vulnerable groups and their families, maybe offered to all who want it after that, including children who may be vulnerable or members if their family who might be.

Flu vaccine had long worked like that and over the years has been given to varying groups. Dd was in a trial year where year 7s and 8s were given it. Didn't have it year 9 or 10. For flu really bad in year 10 and we have paid for one ever since for last 4 years.

Dh is always offered a free flu vaccine via his work despite not being in an eligible group. He gets this year's in two weeks time.

If Dd was a younger teen, would she had had it? Yes. Would she have it as an annual booster jab? Most likely, yes

[quote Hotcoffee10]@Tailendofsummer that’s new this year. Used to be just at risk secondary age kids who got it.[/quote]
Actually they have trialled younger teens on and off for quite a while. When Dd was 11/12 they have it to year 7 and 8s / that was in 2013 or 14. It's not that new tbh.

Interestingly the children of the medics at our school didn't have the Covid vaccine either. Not sure what that says!

Says absolutely nothing as it's not a wide enough sample.

Fwiw where I live we are surrounded by medics. My primary school has a huge number of children of medics (fill bubbles from day 1 as a reSLT) as does the local secondary school. We have 4 large teaching hospitals on or doorstep. The vaccine uptake at the local secondary is really really high. Every medic we know have been vaccinated, as have their children.

Still says nothing on its own. Two totally contrasting anecdotes.

@Abraxan

Interestingly the children of the medics at our school didn't have the Covid vaccine either. Not sure what that says!

Says absolutely nothing as it's not a wide enough sample.

Fwiw where I live we are surrounded by medics. My primary school has a huge number of children of medics (fill bubbles from day 1 as a reSLT) as does the local secondary school. We have 4 large teaching hospitals on or doorstep. The vaccine uptake at the local secondary is really really high. Every medic we know have been vaccinated, as have their children.

Still says nothing on its own. Two totally contrasting anecdotes.

Quite. Though not sure the medics referenced by the other poster should be having her tell MN about them, whatever their anti-vax views. Especially as a quick AS tells you exactly where they are. "Anti vax doctors tell school mums not to vaccinate" is a perfect redtop headline.

If mine could get vaccinated, I'd let them, even if like flu, it wasn't a permanent shot. Especially given the current situation in schools. If government policy is to encourage mass infection of children, then I'd rather they took their chances with the vaccine, than with natural infection.

@beentoldcomputersaysno

Everyone I know has consented to the vaccine and those with 11 and under would take it if they could. Mine queued up for leftover vaccine as they are over 18 so got vaccinated around 3 months ahead of their age group.

This is all well and good and I’m more than happy that anyone who wants the vaccine and/or continual boosters for themselves and their children have access to them.

The MASSIVE problem I have with all of this is that it is not the free choice that it should be.

If not vaccinated it’s already pretty difficult to travel anywhere having to quarantine both ways in most countries and once domestic vaccine passports are introduced it then becomes pretty difficult to retain individual choice when your 13 year old can’t come to a restaurant with you for dinner because they haven’t had the latest booster due to your genuine concerns about benefit vs risk.

I know posters will soon be on this thread telling me that I’m worrying about nothing and that isn’t the case in the uk, but it’s absolutely coming. It’s already widely used across Europe, Canada and Australia and there’s even news today of the Vaccine minister saying that people probably will need proof of the booster to be able to travel next summer. As I’ve said on another thread already, I do NOT want access to everyday freedoms and leisure activities for myself and my children to be dependent on 6 monthly vaccinations.

Fine vaccinate people and demographics actually at risk of developing serious illness and who consent, for the rest it should be 100% freedom of choice with no restriction to life based upon that choice.

You can have a negative test to allow non vaccinated access to everywhere though, can't you? I haven't been abroad but thought that was the case in countries with vaccine passes- isn't that why the name is Green Pass/EU Covid Pass etc? Not vaccine pass?

Yes you can but it costs €25 per test in France and lasts 72hrs.

It was free for a few months after they introduced the covid pass but it is now chargeable unless under 18 and a resident. As an adult who would like the choice it now costs at least €200 per month to access daily life including going to your sports club or to take your child to see a GP.

People who are vaccinated think this isn’t a problem because it doesn’t affect them, they can just show their pass and carry on. But once that pass starts expiring unless you’ve taken endless boosters and so have your children (where side effects arguably could be more of a risk), maybe they would feel differently?

Yes, I suppose it mounts up.

My dd will have every Covid vaccine going.

Good for you @ArseInTheCoOpWindow, I support your choice 100% and I hope that you would support mine not to vaccinate my young teen boys until more research has been undertaken, especially as they’ve both had covid with little effect.