People's behaviour in London

[catandcandle]

NC for this, because I probably sound like a bit of a loon. We left London as the lockdown 2020 started and have been living in deep rural bliss in an EU country ever since. Here we still have social distancing, madatory masks indoors everywhere, sanitisers at every entrance. I have spent a lot of the pandemic not going anywhere much, I WFH and it has been possible to pretty much isolate throughout. I did get on a holiday to another European country in the summer (after being double vaccinated) but it was country with low rates, I wore an FFP3 on the plane, and because it was a hot country I spent nearly the whole time outdoors and only went to eat at outdoor places etc.

We decided (after DS aged 12 has now been double vaccinated), to come on a trip back to London (DH for various reasons including fetching things he had to leave behind, me and DS just to see London again and see some friends). DH has gone today, DS and I plan to join him on Friday, for the weekend.

DH has just arrived in London and he called me telling me I am going to freak out, there are people in the shops without masks, no sanitiser at the doors, and when he asked someone to please social distance in a shop they mocked him. He is right, this will be very difficult, I have not encountered these things through the whole pandemic!

I am not asking AIBU, I very possibly am, but this is how I feel, and I hve been managing the pandemic this way because I could. I still want to go to London, and I realise I can take my own sanitiser and keep myself away from people. There is no way I am going to go indoors or on public transport without a medical-grade (FFP3) mask. The rates are just too high for me.

So, I just wanted to ask, are there still people who are going to be as cautious as me there? Will I be stared at and mocked because I (and DS) are wearing masks, shy away from contact and sanitise our hands? I don't suppose I should really care what people think of me, but I would just like to be prepared. I feel incredibly nervous about this trip now.

@catandcandle

It may seem unreasonable. But as of now my government is still telling me I need to mask, distance, distance etc. In the country where my parents live they can't even stay out in the evening. And in both these countires the rates are lower than in the UK. So for some my anxiety may seem reasonable.

But in a few weeks your government won't be telling you to mask and 'distance', will they?

These rules and guidelines are arbitrary to a large degree. Will your anxiety disappear when your government tells you no longer have to 'mask and distance'?

We also moved out of London during Covid. We moved to a home country.

Where we are people are more cautious but generally have moved on just occasionally wearing masks. It is fairly common in shops and public transport still.

When I go up to London to work they are even more laid back, but I am not surprised - London generally has a younger population and living in a city tends to lend itself to people who want to live busy, full lives so they are back to embracing being back to 'normal' and getting on with life.

Arf at standing 2m away when in London. On the tube you can get at least 25 people in that space.

I dont think it was ever official advice, but back when we were more worried about surface transmission than we are now, there were plenty of people, even on MN, who would drop their/their DCs clothes at the front door and then wash everthing on a hot wash (I stopped doing it so hot when everything started to shrink!). I cut back on that, and now just make DS wash his hands when he comes in, and I wipe his phone with an alcohol wipe (I used to use an ultraviolet steriliser n all the phones in the beginning too, at least I don'tdo that any more!). At least washing your hands regularly is good practice anyway, and he does it religiously now, when he never used to do it before!

I am going to bite the bullet and go to London, and I am encouraged by some of the things people have said.

@chocolatethunder

Iv just been to London and I got into a very small elevator, a guy tried to get in and I asked him could he please not as it's such a small confided space. He seen me later on and asked was it because he was a male and I'm a lone female!!! Clearly that wasn't the case. It's the fact we was in London for urgent medical treatment, small confined space and COVID!!!! I said I didn't want to risk our treatment an we was simply isolating in the hotel until we could go for treatment then home. I think people have forgotten

You absolutely weren’t isolating if you were in a hotel lift you think people have forgotten what?!

I also live somewhere where FFP2 masks and Covid passes are compulsory absolutely everywhere, albeit it’s a large city so I do come into contact with a lot of people. I go to restaurants, work with 200+ people (unmasked and not distanced) but in the whole I am still being careful, so is everyone around me, and there are a lot of measures in place here. I never quarantined my shopping or obsessed over hand sanitiser for an airborne virus though.

I’m now regularly travelling back to London and other places in England. I wear my FFP2 mask everywhere, I keep my distance from others if I can, I avoid busy pubs or such other places. If people stare, I stare back - why would I care? I am a bit more wary in London because the rates are so much higher than in my own city, but there’s not much else I can do.

We need to get back to living, and for me living involves being in London very often. It does look a little strange seeing so many people without masks or teenagers clubbing in big groups, but those are things out of my control.

I wear a mask everywhere - unless outdoor in a uncrowded place. My DD wears a mask all day in school.

COVID rates in the UK are really high, around 35,000 new cases a day and 207 per 100,000 in London. More people than this will actually have it as not everyone is testing or reporting results.

We are finding our "new normal". Being double jabbed gives only minimal protection against actual infection, the main value is in reducing severity of infection.

I'm sorry OP but if you visit London don't be surprised if you get Covid - although Ireland isn't doing much better with 170 cases per 100,000.

Encouraging also to see that different people are doing different things, and that my wanting to wear masks is not seen as unreasonable by everyone!

No, my anxiety is not going to just disappear when the government relaxes measures, but I suppose it will gradually diminish if things carry on as they are now.

I went to London recently and it's like covid doesn't exist. Crowds everywhere, completely bavk to normal. No social distancing at all.

@Snog I know, that is why I am worried despite people on here trying to tell me I am essentally a crazy unreasonable neurotic for wanting to mitigate against getting it. Ireland is still a bit high overall, but not at all where I live.

There is a such a disparity on this thread, between my being told I should esentially just get over myself and behave normally and stop being a drama llama, to being told I should not be surprised if I get Covid (as I said, I am neither young nor fit, I also have a lot of people who depend on me including DH and both children and parents, I have to take that into consideration).

I'm in London and still cautious but lots of people aren't. Obviously you are more likely to see the people who aren't worried if you are out and about in central London or go to shops and restaurants - those who are worried are not going to be there.

If you avoid the rush hour on public transport and generally go to shops etc. during quieter times, it's very easy to get on with normal life and still keep your distance from strangers, though. I wear a FFP2 mask on the tube and in shops. On the tube I find standing at the end of a carriage near the windows is generally a good way to keep away from people (plus there's the ventilation from the doors opening at every station).

Shop staff doesn't wear masks, but again, I feel quite safe going into shops during quieter times of the day and just doing my shopping as normal as any contact with others there is so minimal. Hand sanitiser isn't really that effective as surface transmission is minimal, so I just wash my hands at home when I'm back (as I would do anyway).

I think the main shock for me was when I had an eye test at the opticians and he only wore a flimsy fabric mask despite getting so close to my face. In situations like that I don't understand why some proper measures like medical grade masks can't still be used.

@nordica your post is reassuring to me. I don't expect London to change for me, I just wanted to know what to expect, which I now think I do, and also to have a reasonable expectation that being in an FFP2 or 3 won't make people be nasty or aggressive to me.

[quote catandcandle]@RoseRedRoseBlue it is relevent because it is in London. And there they are still maintaining these measures, they presumbaly have a reason for doing that. What I mean is that, if it was "unreasonable" for Londoners to still be taking these measures than why is a London NHS Trust still doing this?[/quote]
It's still mandatory for staff, patients and visitors to wear face coverings in hospitals. I imagine many hospitals have also continued with social distancing and wfh where possible, and regular testing, the one I work at certainly has. A hospital is a completely different setting to, for example Selfridges. A hospital will have lots of vulnerable people being treated, and will want to avoid them getting covid. It also doesn't want staff spreading covid amongst their colleagues, potentially resulting in whole teams getting it and having to self isolate so they can't work.

I do think though that seeing shop staff without masks will be a shock to the system! I have not seen that in such a long time! I don't really need or intend to shop though.

Perhaps just don’t come back……

I wonder what would bring your community out of its rather neurotic seclusion and get more back to normality?

Neurotic seclusion? They are wearing masks and have clean hands. What’s secluded about that? People want “normality” but aren’t prepared to do some minor mitigations, then get arsey when cases explode.

You won't be mocked but if you have been living the sort of sheltered life you describe you might be unsettled.

I would say around 50% of people are wearing masks in shops and public transport. I do and certainly no one is mocking me for it.

I think a lot of people have been relaxing their attitude to the restrictions in baby steps. For example I went to my first big group indoor drinks session last night having done various outdoor meet ups over the summer. Coming from the situation you are in to the current situation in London is going to be a shock to the system.

I think it depends on your attitude to risk and your own risk profile. It seems like you really want to visit London again and if you don't do it now when, if ever, will the time be right. I spent the summer in Ireland and there were still so many restrictions. Made it easy to feel safe. I did get a shock returning to a bustling London but I don't have a wfh job, travel by tube daily to a busy workplace and am busy getting on with life now.

I think its natural when you've been scared and have cut yourself off from others that you'd be worried about getting out and about. So no shame on that. However, for comparison, RoI is 170 per 100,000 and London is 207 and does a lot more testing. So numbers will be pretty even. No one will look twice if you wear a mask unless you're in a hazmat suit as well. Take your own sanitiser.

The NHS asks for people to keep wearing masks because
a) if people are sick from covid, they're most likely to be in hospital. As a result it's the place where its circulating the most so you're most likely to catch it.
b) a larger proportion of people going into hospitals are likely to be cev in comparison to the general population so it's important to protect them.
I don't think nhs environments are reflective of general environments. But I think you probably know all that and are being a bit goady. 😉 😄

OP no one will care if you wear a mask or sanitise your hands. It's your choice and people in London will mostly be too busy to even notice.

I went into town today on the tube, it was busy but not overcrowded. I think the mask wearing was about 50/50 but I wasn't really paying attention.

I understand your husbands reaction. I spent a few months in Spain in 2020. I was amazed when we came home. No masks (only in shops), no hand sanitiser and Eat Out to Help Out was in full swing. It was quite a shock after coming from somewhere with stricter rules.

@RichardMarxisinnocent yes, that is true, and of course it is resaonable that service users and staff are being protected more than the people in Selfridges. But doing my own risk assessment, I want to protect myself and my family as much as those people in the hospital are being protected. My getting ill may not have as serious an overall effect to the world as a team of nurses getting ill, or multiple patients on a ward. But it could still be serious for me and my family.

nobody will care if you’re wearing a mask and sanitising. If it’s any consolation I’ve lived in London for the entire pandemic and I haven’t had covid (not saying I’ll never get it, but up until now I’ve been fine). As of the past year or so, I’ve been going out and using public transport and haven’t always washed my hands immediately upon returning home, let alone quarantined my post and shopping. I’m now vaccinated as is everyone I know, and the only people I know who’ve had covid are people who went to gigs and club nights in non-ventilated venues as soon as these started happening. Personally I wouldn’t go to anything like that but I’ve had countless coffees and dinners with friends, been on the train and tube, walked the dog and talked unmasked to other people and I’m yet to contract covid.

You can’t be that old if you have a 12 year old. What is it you’re worried about re Covid - being properly ill, like hospitalised (aren’t you vaccinated?), or just being ill enough to affect your domestic duties for a bit? Because you genuinely shouldn’t be going to London at all if a nasty cold would be a problem for you.

I commute to London most days. In my experience in peak times more people are wearing masks but certainly not everyone, in off peak time far fewer people are wearing masks.
I still wear a mask in shops and indoor spaces, some places still have plastic screens up between the cashiers but a lot don't.