Childminder not following covid guidelines

[Rainydaize]

I have 2 daughters who both go to the same childminder. Dd2 had a positive test but the childminder refused to take dd1 stating that there were vulnerable children in the setting and they could be investigated if more children caught covid.
They are both therefore isolating. Dd1 had a negative result at the same time dd2 had a positive so I thought she would be fine to go in.
I was then asked to do another PCR on dd1 so she could go back in, but this has come back positive. I spoke to test and trace and they have said that she should isolate from the start of symptoms (when she got her negative test) and to assume the negative was a false negative. This would mean she could go back to the childminder on the same day as originally planned.
The childminder has called a helpline apparently and has now asked for ten more days isolation from the date of a positive test.

I'm self employed and will really struggle to work if I have to do another ten days isolation with dd. (They are both pre schoolers).

My dp isn't around, we separated over lockdown due to dv, so it's taken a long time for me to finally try and get my life back and this has just really stressed me out. I've had to cancel so much work already without the girls being allowed in, and I'm already trying to save every penny I can for a decent Xmas for them.

All of this doesn't sit right with me because it's going against the guidelines but I know I've got a lot of personal stuff going on too so aibu to wonder why they can't be going in?
What should I do?

@Tresal

I also have to work and I don’t get paid if my children have to stay at home. I would be furious if someone made up the rules for themselves based on their own theories about Covid! This thread shows how muddled people get.

Making up their own rules?! Are you serious?

That's literally what we do as a childcare setting - we set our own rules, as it is our own business to run.
Our rules/policies have to be fair and reasonable, we have to show we are safeguarding all children. The childminder in question has set her own rules and her rules are safeguarding all the people associated with her setting.

As an example, my DD's high school have also sent out their rules which state that if any pupil has a positive case within their household, they cannot attend during the isolation period. A school which is governed by the local council. Her school's rules seem acceptable to our council, including any sane person who knows that once covid is in someone's home, it's highly likely that at least one other person within that household will get it too. I'm sure there have been cases where households have been extremely lucky and only one person has had it, but that's an exception to the norm.

I am not making up rules as I go along. I am carefully considering the safety of all concerned and basing my setting's rules surrounding covid based on a set of risk assessments. Parents can either accept a childminder's rules, or find elsewhere to send their children.
The only error I can see in the OP's CM's covid policy is that she possibly did not communicate it properly to the OP. My practise is that I must always have an email trail, and/or a signature to confirm they have read and understood my policies.

[quote glitterelf]@Tresal your deceptive behaviour could have serious implications for others and is utterly selfish. Actions like that could have a devastating impact on any childcare setting having to close and for much longer. We've always had parents who chance the odd sickness or bug knowing full well their child is sick, covid is very different especially for those who are CEV. [/quote]
Not only us it selfish, but it's a bit self-defeating. If your deception means your child goes back a couple of days early and infects the childminder then you have more time without childcare and not getting paid because they will have to close.

It really would have been a lot better if the government had supported isolation better and made it a bit clearer that getting rid of the legal requirement for isolating wasn't a free for all it was moving towards businesses taking more responsibility for the health and safety of their staff and clients.

Completely agree, @RafaIsTheKingOfClay!

You are legally obliged to isolate for the time that test and trace tell you to, not how long the childminder thinks you should. Of course, it is entirely up to the childminder but longer isolation periods have a knock on effect. People rely on me being at work as much as possible and have done throughout the pandemic. From a selfish point of view, I would actually much rather stay at home with my kids for longer.

@Tresal

You are legally obliged to isolate for the time that test and trace tell you to, not how long the childminder thinks you should. Of course, it is entirely up to the childminder but longer isolation periods have a knock on effect. People rely on me being at work as much as possible and have done throughout the pandemic. From a selfish point of view, I would actually much rather stay at home with my kids for longer.

Correct.
The childminder is however completely within her rights to ask someone to stay away from her setting whilst they have a positive case within their household.

And if there is any confusion over symptoms/negative pcr's and then a positive one, wouldn't it be sensible to err on the side of caution for the sake of a couple of days in order to ensure the safety of everyone associated with the setting? I think the childminder is very sensible and taking these appropriate safety measures.

People also heavily rely on childminders to stay open, and they expect childminders to set appropriate measures in order to stay open.

I would be furious if someone made up the rules for themselves based on their own theories about Covid!

That Covid spreads easily in households is not a random theory about Covid. It is pretty much the one thing we have always known and that hasn’t changed in 18 months. You have to remember the government guidelines are not based around whether it is safe, it is based around what is the balance of harms for society as a whole. Each government takes it’s own view on how to balance those harms. Some choose to focus on the risk to people, and others (like ours) choose a more politically popular stance of opening up schools and the economy, removing the easiest and most basic of mitigations, using terms like “freedom day”, on the basis that those who are the most vulnerable can just keep themselves indoors if they are that worried about it.

If a business chooses to protect its vulnerable clients by imposing stricter rules, they can do that of they wish. Can you imagine the reverse post about how someone’s vulnerable kid caught Covid at the childminder when she knowingly took in a child from a household that had Covid?

Some of us remained open throughout the whole pandemic supporting not only keyworker families but also some of the most vulnerable children. We didn't survive by simply making up our own rules but by instilling common sense upon the guidance given to keep everyone safe.

For childminders we have to risk assess everything and since the relaxation of the rules our settings have been put at greater risk of closing with no support in place should that happen. The children and families who use us at out and about and mixing with multiple people as they are free to do so but that's how this virus spreads.

Parents often only think about their childcare needs and not the needs of all the other families who use the same setting. I'm certain that parents would be quick enough to blame and call out other parents if there was an outbreak in the setting as well as slating the childminder.

I think you were really out of order to try to send her in when she was actually symptomatic and her sibling tested positive. What were you thinking?!

I do understand you are in a difficult situation. unfortunately it sounds like your childminder ifs free to set her own rules so you will have to isolate 10 days from positive test.

Parents often only think about their childcare needs and not the needs of all the other families who use the same setting.

Is that genuinely something you criticise parents for? I don’t give a shit about the needs of other families at DD’s nursery. Why on earth should I care about someone else’s childcare needs? It’s the setting’s job to consider other families and balance potentially conflicting needs, not mine.

@RobinPenguins

Parents often only think about their childcare needs and not the needs of all the other families who use the same setting.

Is that genuinely something you criticise parents for? I don’t give a shit about the needs of other families at DD’s nursery. Why on earth should I care about someone else’s childcare needs? It’s the setting’s job to consider other families and balance potentially conflicting needs, not mine.

But that's what they do in instances like this, they decide the best approach and then people inevitably complain about it as they can't see beyond their own nose.

@RobinPenguins

Parents often only think about their childcare needs and not the needs of all the other families who use the same setting.

Is that genuinely something you criticise parents for? I don’t give a shit about the needs of other families at DD’s nursery. Why on earth should I care about someone else’s childcare needs? It’s the setting’s job to consider other families and balance potentially conflicting needs, not mine.

It's not a criticism it's a fact that parents send in sick kids to childcare and schools and then other children and the providers also catch these bugs and illnesses. Funny you say it's down to the childcare settings to think about all families as that's exactly what we are doing and still getting flamed for it.

I did another pcr on dd1 and it came back negative. Now they are telling me the positive must've been false. I wish I'd never tested again. I've tole my childminder about the new negative but how I don't know what to do?!

@Rainydaize

I did another pcr on dd1 and it came back negative. Now they are telling me the positive must've been false. I wish I'd never tested again. I've tole my childminder about the new negative but how I don't know what to do?!

You're having a laugh, surely?!?

Your dd, who has symptoms, who has had a positive pcr test, whose sister has also tested positive..... You really truly believe that this latest pcr is accurate?
Can't be anything to do with a badly done swab?

And you've told your cm - what are you expecting her to do at this point?!?

🤯

@Rainydaize

I did another pcr on dd1 and it came back negative. Now they are telling me the positive must've been false. I wish I'd never tested again. I've tole my childminder about the new negative but how I don't know what to do?!

False negatives are hugely more likely than false positives.

Your kids have covid, keep them home for 10 days after the positive test.

@Rainydaize

I did another pcr on dd1 and it came back negative. Now they are telling me the positive must've been false. I wish I'd never tested again. I've tole my childminder about the new negative but how I don't know what to do?!

So in the time of you writing this thread you've managed to book yet another PCR and have the results returned in a matter of hours? You know you should continue to isolate your DD and you were also told on this thread that you shouldn't do another PCR after a positive one for 90 days. You should also be aware that if your child still has symptoms even after the isolation period has ended ( high temp ) she should continue to isolate. I doubt very much that your childminder will bow down and take your child in until the isolation period is ended.

I'd do nothing. If I were your childminder and you told me you'd done another PCR and you told me it was negative, I'd be giving you your notice not letting your daughter attend! All you are demonstrating is that you will stop at nothing to get your child into childcare and not that you have any concern about introducing covid to the child minder.

@NuttyinNotts

I'd do nothing. If I were your childminder and you told me you'd done another PCR and you told me it was negative, I'd be giving you your notice not letting your daughter attend! All you are demonstrating is that you will stop at nothing to get your child into childcare and not that you have any concern about introducing covid to the child minder.

Yes I agree with this, assuming you actually have done another test, I'd suspect you've swabbed someone else to ensure a negative. I'd be furious.

She has a right to protect any vulnerable children and is allowed to do so. I’m not sure what a nursery would do.

If she had covid symptoms at the same time as her sister why did you send her in?

@Leibham

She has a right to protect any vulnerable children and is allowed to do so. I’m not sure what a nursery would do.

If she had covid symptoms at the same time as her sister why did you send her in?

A nursery would be given the same advice to inform the parent the child needs to complete the isolation period following a positive PCR and to refuse entry until completed and not displaying symptoms ie high temp.

@glitterelf

That’s what I thought, but would they accept to start self iso from the start of symptoms or would they say start of the positive test?

[quote Leibham]@glitterelf

That’s what I thought, but would they accept to start self iso from the start of symptoms or would they say start of the positive test?[/quote]
I would assume that as the childminder sought the advice that if nursery did the same they too would say from positive test.
In all honesty the rules now are crazy which is why as childcare providers we are having to go above and beyond to protect everyone.

who is telling you the positive must have been false? PCR tests return far more false negatives than false positives.

You have a responsible child under who wants to protect people in her charge. That's something to be treasured and respected.

responsible childminder - not child!

@glitterelf

Agreed, I’d not appreciate a parent who thinks this way in any childcare setting my child attended.

OP I understand you are in a really hard financial situation, but your child has symptoms AND has had a positive covid test! Your other child is also symptomatic and positive for covid. They clearly both have covid. You really do need to keep them at home.

Tbh even if we weren’t in the midst of a global pandemic, I’d think it bad form to send an evidently sick child into a childcare setting. In the current circumstances it’s obviously unacceptable.