Exemptions from being vaccinated and tested

[itsgrand]

Has anyone else heard about this?
NHS worker here and we have been being briefed on this for the past 2 weeks, and had additional training for the roll out of exemptions which was due to be launched this week, however I think there is a delay to the roll out. I have internal links etc but there doesn't seem to be anything on the gov.uk or the nhs website about this.

Basically this is going to be rolled out that if you are medically advised not to get the vaccine and have an issue that means you cant be tested then you can get the same covid pass as people who are vaccinated.

Interested to know if anyone else has had briefings about this in work?

@whymewhyme

Bit random but help me out.....if your a carer and had one vaccine ( had to choose job or jab) get pregnant before the 2nd jab....can you self exempt? And not have the second or do they have to have it even though they are pregnant because they work in care?

You should speak to your doctor, but the risk to you and your baby if you catch covid while pregnant is extremely high. The weight and fluid of pregnancy makes it harder to catch your breath and for them to treat severe covid - this article is from Scientific American and has lots of data, but what stood out to me was the story of the 34 year old third time mum who was so fit that she went to CrossFit the day before she tested positive for covid - but soon after getting it she became really ill, they had to deliver her son prematurely by c section, and over a month later, she's still in the ICU, has never met her baby, and will need a double lung transplant to make it out.

If it helps with your job that's good too, but your health needs to come first, whatever you decide.

www.scientificamerican.com/article/pregnant-and-unvaccinated-deltas-deadly-toll/

I think this is absolutely wrong. Sorry. Will that apply to air travel. How can they give a person a card to say they've had the vaccination if they haven't. Madness.

”Other than get another job - which swathes of carers are doing. We've had warnings from our care providers that alongside the already dire recruitment issues, they X number of carers leaving next month.”

Yes, it’s a worry. In fact, I’d say it’s been 90% of the stress, anxiety and sleepless nights for me work wise over recent weeks. It’ll get worse too.

At least it appears that if you're in the very small number of people who cannot for clinical reasons be either vaccinated or tested, your GP has to confirm it. Self identification shouldn't be accepted and if your GP has to sign, hopefully it won't be.

That's good. I was at a gig the other day and you had to show your negative test text (yes I know there are ways to cheat but still) which I was surprised but pleased about. I'm not so fussed about whether or not people are vaccinated because I'm double vaccinated and still caught covid but I do think people should test if attending indoor events unless they absolutely can't.

"I think this is absolutely wrong. Sorry. Will that apply to air travel. How can they give a person a card to say they've had the vaccination if they haven't. Madness."

Other countries will have their own rules. Exemptions already exist in the UK for children so it is not as if people aren't going to be sharing spaces with those who not vaccinated and tested. Those who will be exempt from both will be very small in number, generally severely disabled, generally pretty careful because they are likely to be because their condition, more at risk and are very unlikely to be present in large numbers in any public space. For many the main benefit will be that they do not have to self isolate as contacts - which is completely reasonable given that children don't have to either.

Many of those people will have fairly severe physical or mental health challenges that mean that they're unlikely to be 'next to you at a concert' like a pp suggested.

That's not exactly the case. If someone is fit and healthy but has severe allergies to the ingredients in the vaccine they can be exempt and may well be sitting beside you at a concern. Likewise if someone has had a severe reaction to a previous vaccine they may be exempt and be sitting beside you at a concert. You have no way of knowing the vaccine status of the person sitting beside you at all.

Those who cannot be vaccinated or tested would usually either have severe learning disability, severe autism or a severe mental health condition.
If you go to public places you could easily be next to a child who is not vaccinated and more likely to be asymptomatic as well.

I don’t know where this would leave someone like me.

I had the first vaccine and have had a debilitating headache ever since. On a cocktail of prescription pain killers that only dull it.

Awaiting a neurology appointment (over the phone).

There’s no way I’m having a second (of any make), not while I’m going through this.

Not spoken to a GP, only do an advanced nurse practitioner to get the repeat prescriptions that were given to me in the AEC unit at the hospital.

So do I just come under “vaccine refuser” now? No one has spoken to me about it, apart from one consultant in AEC who asked if there was going to be a second, when I said no he said “yeah, I don’t blame you”.

I wouldn’t hold out hope that anyone would put in on record.

All my notes say is that I “claim” to have had a persistent headache after the AZ vaccine.

Not that I would go anywhere who imposed a
passport, I think it’s awful.

I mean, I had the vaccine so I could go back to work in dementia care, I was planning to find a job next year.

Now I can’t (not that I could at the moment anyway with the pain and medications). So wondering where it would leave me.

@Siriisatwat

I don’t know where this would leave someone like me.

I had the first vaccine and have had a debilitating headache ever since. On a cocktail of prescription pain killers that only dull it.

Awaiting a neurology appointment (over the phone).

There’s no way I’m having a second (of any make), not while I’m going through this.

Not spoken to a GP, only do an advanced nurse practitioner to get the repeat prescriptions that were given to me in the AEC unit at the hospital.

So do I just come under “vaccine refuser” now? No one has spoken to me about it, apart from one consultant in AEC who asked if there was going to be a second, when I said no he said “yeah, I don’t blame you”.

I wouldn’t hold out hope that anyone would put in on record.

All my notes say is that I “claim” to have had a persistent headache after the AZ vaccine.

ring 119 and go through to covid pass then select medical exemptions and give your details and a form will be sent out that you can give to your gp/consultant and they will determine if you come under the criteria for medical exemption

@Sockwomble

Those who cannot be vaccinated or tested would usually either have severe learning disability, severe autism or a severe mental health condition. If you go to public places you could easily be next to a child who is not vaccinated and more likely to be asymptomatic as well.

again that's not exactly the case. Anyone who had a severe reaction may be exempt. Pregnant women can request temporary exemption.

@itsgrand I guess I will have to wait until I speak to the consultant. I was only ever seen in A&E and then onto the AEC for scans etc.

Never met my GP, I’ve only ever used private GPs until now - this is the first time I’ve used the NHs for over 25 years because my insurance won’t cover anything to do with vaccines.

So the only thing my GP will have on it so far is the reports from A&E and AEC and the two times I’ve had to speak to a nurse practitioner for repeat pain medications.

But like I said. I doubt many in the NHS would be willing to give exemptions for problems arising from the first vaccine. I’ve heard of people in my situation being pushed to take another make of vaccine while still in pain from the first (no issue with anyone who does that, I’m just not willing to).

And I doubt they would accept anything from my private GP.

"again that's not exactly the case. Anyone who had a severe reaction may be exempt. Pregnant women can request temporary exemption."

But they can still be tested. I thought the problem was people thinking there would be loads swanning about and not doing either when in fact this will be a very small number of people.

nope they can also be exempted from testing if there is a medical reason why they cant be tested.

Again I am just highlighting that the people on MN who have been insisting on only mixing with vaccinated people, this has always in my opinion for the most part been ridiculous. Even more so now with exemptions from vaccine and exemptions from testing. So the lady who didn't want an unvaccinated cleaner a few weeks ago............. or the lady who didn't want an unvaccinated nanny, or the lady who was going to ask her whole family to show their proof of vaccine to gain entry to her home at Xmas ............ ridiculous, silly and pointless.

so for example you are fully vaxed as is all your family. You venture out to a music venue that only lets people enter with a covid pass. You feel safe because you think those in attendance have either been vaccinated or tested so risk is minimised. But there are people there who have a covid pass who have not been vaccinated and have not been tested. Their covid pass looks exactly like yours.

The people who are double vaxed as we know can still carry and transmit the virus (albeit lower viral loads yes), the people who are not vaxxed can carry and transmit.
You have no way of knowing.
So it is pointless to be saying you avoid the unvaccinated.
You have absolutely no way of knowing who is or who is not vaccinated. Which is quite right because it is not anyone else's business tbh. Your vaccine and medical history is private and confidential.

*One of the main points of the vaccine program was for most people to be vaccinated to protect those who can't be. And those who can't be should have the same rights as those have been. It is likely that those who can't be are taking care generally anyway.
My issue is with the people who won't take the vaccine, won't self isolate, won't test and are more at risk of spreading the virus.

Providing exemptions for those who can't will separate out these two groups and it will mean less unvaccinated/untested people in those spaces where vaccination/testing required. That will be good for those who are anxious too, whether vaccinated or unvaccinated.*

This. The whole point of vaccine programmes is to get cases down so that those who can’t be vaccinated or are vulnerable will be less at risk. This is not peculiar to Covid. Completely crazy that there was an outbreak of 300 measles cases in schools locally and signs had to go up in our hospital asking that people with symptoms not be bought to A&E, a Virus with potential life long side effects as well as mortality that had almost disappeared being allowed to become a threat in schools again.

@itsgrand

so for example you are fully vaxed as is all your family. You venture out to a music venue that only lets people enter with a covid pass. You feel safe because you think those in attendance have either been vaccinated or tested so risk is minimised. But there are people there who have a covid pass who have not been vaccinated and have not been tested. Their covid pass looks exactly like yours.

The people who are double vaxed as we know can still carry and transmit the virus (albeit lower viral loads yes), the people who are not vaxxed can carry and transmit.
You have no way of knowing.
So it is pointless to be saying you avoid the unvaccinated.
You have absolutely no way of knowing who is or who is not vaccinated. Which is quite right because it is not anyone else's business tbh. Your vaccine and medical history is private and confidential.

I'd think that in the example you gave the numbers would be very small.

it seems the unvaccinated are the great unwashed Excellent analogy OP. Not washing is anti social and so is not getting vaccinated if you are offered the opportunity, except of course not washing does not put those around you at greater risk of a nasty virus.

I am quite happy to take the increased risk of being near someone who is unable to be vaccinated but if cases rise to the extent Covid passes are deemed necessary and that is the only way to keep venues safe then taking the willingly unvaccinated out of my risk profile so I and others can more safely go out is fair enough.

.. or the lady who didn't want an unvaccinated nanny, or the lady who was going to ask her whole family to show their proof of vaccine to gain entry to her home at Xmas ............ ridiculous, silly and pointless.

So the person who makes the decision not to take the safe vaccination when offered to protect themselves and others is not taking a ridiculous silly and pointless decision but the person who decides they don’t want the actual increased risk of being exposed to them is? Ok then……

"nope they can also be exempted from testing if there is a medical reason why they cant be tested."

Such as? Because I am struggling to think of any beyond the obvious unable to cooperate with medical procedures - and there won't be many of them at a busy music venue.
If you chose to go to somewhere busy you are taking a risk because you could still catch covid there. It is a risk at the moment I don't want to take so I don't go to those places.

Please let's not return to the othering of people with certain disabilities.

@Emilyontmoor

.. or the lady who didn't want an unvaccinated nanny, or the lady who was going to ask her whole family to show their proof of vaccine to gain entry to her home at Xmas ............ ridiculous, silly and pointless.

So the person who makes the decision not to take the safe vaccination when offered to protect themselves and others is not taking a ridiculous silly and pointless decision but the person who decides they don’t want the actual increased risk of being exposed to them is? Ok then……

my point is that the person that decides they don't the increased risk of being exposed to someone who hasn't been vaccinated is nul and void. None of us have any way of knowing who is vaccinated or who is not. So the choice is actually gone. You WILL likely come into contact with persons who are not vaccinated and you may never ever know. Therefore spending your time and energy insisting that everyone around is vaccinated is a bit pointless.

Sockwomble I think the PCR testing process is very hard for anyone with sensory issues, even more so if that is teamed with learning difficulties. If a fluorescent bulb is going to send you into sensory overload and meltdown imagine having a PCR test? In any case the chances of someone with those issues being near you in a public venue is Betty small but I would not want them excluded because they face those issues. Not however an argument that in any way validates the OPs point of view which seems to be that because we can and should enable a few people with issues that preclude them from vaccination / testing to take part in society that we should not exclude some who have a choice to get vaccinated and don’t.

@Emilyontmoor

it seems the unvaccinated are the great unwashed Excellent analogy OP. Not washing is anti social and so is not getting vaccinated if you are offered the opportunity, except of course not washing does not put those around you at greater risk of a nasty virus.

I am quite happy to take the increased risk of being near someone who is unable to be vaccinated but if cases rise to the extent Covid passes are deemed necessary and that is the only way to keep venues safe then taking the willingly unvaccinated out of my risk profile so I and others can more safely go out is fair enough.

That's my point exactly. Covid passes do not mean that someone is safe to be around. They may not be vaccinated. They may not be tested. They may well have raging Covid and you will be beside them thinking you are a bit safer because of the Covid Pass. The exemptions undermine the feeling of safety that people believed the Covid Pass would bring