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Original poster

Any vaccinators here? I have a question please!

55 replies

Confused10101 · 28/09/2021 10:56

I’ve watched this video and was wondering why this (aspiration) is not being practiced? If it saves lifted by potentially reducing blood clots and heart issues it’s a no brainier isn’t it?

Is it because the drive is to jab as many as possible?

I’ve got my second vaccine due, would it work if I ask the vaccinator to aspirate? Or will I just be ignored?

I know John Campbell is not a medical doctor but a nurse with a phd, but that doesn’t negate what he is taking about..if it’s got credibility

OP posts:
phantomgirl22 · 28/09/2021 11:48

Exoskeleton?!! Meaning example given!

phantomgirl22 · 28/09/2021 11:49

[quote Confused10101]@phantomgirl22 could I ask when you had your vaccine did you request the vaccinator to aspirate?[/quote]
I didn't. I knew him though from my work. He did aspirate. The first was from my practice nurse who again did aspirate.

MegCleary · 28/09/2021 11:52

The volume is .3ml it may be that the volume negates the need to aspirate and they are tiny needles not the deep IM ones usually used. And true I’ve never seen any vax I was given aspirated.

Original poster
Confused10101 · 28/09/2021 11:55

@phantomgirl22 work privileges! :-)

I doubt if a joe bloggs like me requests this I’ll be entertained…given that NO adverse reactions get linked to the vaccines- remember when the AZ blood clots were down played? I doubt this will be taken seriously- I guess it’s jab as many as you can…

OP posts:
WiseUpJanetWeiss · 28/09/2021 11:59

[quote Confused10101]@phantomgirl22 work privileges! :-)

I doubt if a joe bloggs like me requests this I’ll be entertained…given that NO adverse reactions get linked to the vaccines- remember when the AZ blood clots were down played? I doubt this will be taken seriously- I guess it’s jab as many as you can…[/quote]
No aspiration unless administering into gluteal muscle has been PHE’s advice in the Green Book for many years, well before Covid.

cptartapp · 28/09/2021 12:01

I've been vaccinating over thirty years and of the last 20 at least, the advice is that aspiration is not necessary. Just as we don't dispel air from prefilled syringes anymore.
I was on an update last week and this is still the advice. In the first ten years of aspirating I never once hit a blood vessel.

phantomgirl22 · 28/09/2021 12:04

@cptartapp

I've been vaccinating over thirty years and of the last 20 at least, the advice is that aspiration is not necessary. Just as we don't dispel air from prefilled syringes anymore. I was on an update last week and this is still the advice. In the first ten years of aspirating I never once hit a blood vessel.
I think this advice must vary from trust to trust as my trust still has a policy to aspirate IM injections.
cptartapp · 28/09/2021 12:09

Interesting as I've worked in three different trusts over the past 20 years.

phantomgirl22 · 28/09/2021 12:17

I worked in 5 different NHS trusts over the past 22 years. My latest trust for 10 years so no idea what my previous trusts now say.

But even a quick search for research online I can see that it's variable and quite a debate amounts clinicians to aspirate or not. In Canada they suggest aspirating, in the states the statement is not needed but up to the practitioners. In the UK it varies as some universities are still teaching aspirations to students, others are not. One thing that comes across from all is it depends on the drug been administered. Again refer to my example in earlier post.

vastgrandupgrade · 28/09/2021 12:33

I’ve worked in 12 trusts over the past 39 years. Not really.

SweetBabyCheeses99 · 28/09/2021 13:21

There’s a good article on vaccine aspiration here: dailysceptic.org/2021/09/04/why-isnt-this-simple-step-to-reduce-the-risk-of-blood-clots-after-vaccination-not-followed/

Lelivre · 28/09/2021 15:22

[quote SweetBabyCheeses99]There’s a good article on vaccine aspiration here: dailysceptic.org/2021/09/04/why-isnt-this-simple-step-to-reduce-the-risk-of-blood-clots-after-vaccination-not-followed/[/quote]
Thanks, this last part is interesting:

Niels Hoiby, Professor of Bacteriology at the University of Copenhagen, and Torben Staehr Johansen, former surgeon and current head of BUPA International, were sufficiently concerned about the risks to bring the issue to the attention of the Danish authorities. Through their efforts, aspiration has been recommended in vaccine administration in Denmark since March. Staehr Johansen tells me that, by his reckoning, one out of every 10,000 injections finds blood in the syringe upon aspiration, which adds up to hundreds or even thousands of misdelivered vaccine doses in a population of millions.

Original poster
Confused10101 · 28/09/2021 16:09

No matter what studies come out this waste of a government and related authorities won’t pay attention or even debate it…it’s all about a ‘sticky plaster’ approach..

OP posts:
Whatdoyawannado · 28/09/2021 18:35

I'm a registered vet nurse and every single injection of anything on an animal is aspirated first. Whether it's given subcutaneously or intramuscularly. It takes a split second. Why they don't do this on humans I have no idea.

vastgrandupgrade · 28/09/2021 20:10

@Confused10101

No matter what studies come out this waste of a government and related authorities won’t pay attention or even debate it…it’s all about a ‘sticky plaster’ approach..
Why do you think the government have any involvement in a decision like this?
IncredulousOne · 29/09/2021 14:25

The JCVI themselves advise vaccines don't need to be aspirated before injection.

Campbell is making these claims based on the specific components of the vaccines themselves and using in vitro and murine data to try and prove it. This is what he's not qualified to comment on IMO as he's not a research scientist and has no cardiology or vascular expertise.

Like I said, you would expect those with expertise to have picked up on this if it was a genuine issue.

So, you've stated that because he isn't a medical Dr he's not qualified to comment. On what basis are you qualified to comment?

ollyollyoxenfree · 29/09/2021 14:37

@IncredulousOne

The JCVI themselves advise vaccines don't need to be aspirated before injection.

Campbell is making these claims based on the specific components of the vaccines themselves and using in vitro and murine data to try and prove it. This is what he's not qualified to comment on IMO as he's not a research scientist and has no cardiology or vascular expertise.

Like I said, you would expect those with expertise to have picked up on this if it was a genuine issue.

So, you've stated that because he isn't a medical Dr he's not qualified to comment. On what basis are you qualified to comment?

Not sure why my qualifications are relevant- I'm not the one making claims outside my area of expertise.

I've stated that based on the specific claims he's making about the components of the vaccine and their impact on the cardiovascular system, given he has no expertise in this area, he is not qualified to comment. He is extrapolating from in vitro and murine data of which he does not have any training or experience in.

As I said, if this was causing these events, you would expect myocarditis, pericarditis and CVSTs to be equally distributed in the population, and across the three vaccines. Clearly they are not.

Lelivre · 29/09/2021 22:50

As I understood it; the insert states the vaccine is to be given Intramuscular and not into a vein. If they aspirate it gives that assurance. Although it is unlikely in the upper arm only it takes seconds to check

Original poster
Confused10101 · 30/09/2021 18:38

@Lelivre thanks for the link

The vaccine manufacturers are exempt from legal challenges

The doctors shut you down if you question the vaccine

It’s potluck…that’s how I see it.

OP posts:
Lelivre · 30/09/2021 21:37

OP, just ask. What harm can it do. It’s how the jab is designed. They may be irritated but, why care? It gives you a bit of peace of mind. Just say: please don’t be annoyed at my request but just humour me and please aspirate.

DH had his third and asked the vaccinator to aspirate he was told by the nurse (with 40yrs experience); no problem, it’s old fashioned to do that but that’s fine.

Cuck00soup · 30/09/2021 22:09

It's not a competency or time issue. Most nurses have injected plenty of gluts in their time and know perfectly well how to aspirate. It takes milliseconds.

But coronavirus vaccines, like most other vaccines are administered into deltoid muscles and the current recommendations are that aspiration should not be done.

In terms of side effects like cerebral venous sinus thrombosis and myo/pericarditis it is mostly recorded in younger people and in the latter mostly young males. The very people with decent arm muscles.

It's always wise to investigate concerns that are raised, but my personal hunch here is that poor technique (some vaccinators have an interesting idea about where deltoid muscles are) might be more relevant.

Lelivre · 06/10/2021 12:21

@interesting, yes perhaps you are right, it would fit better with the report around two cases at the same Centre at the same time.

Lelivre · 06/10/2021 12:21

@Cuck00soup