Any vaccinators here? I have a question please!

[Confused10101]

I’ve watched this video and was wondering why this (aspiration) is not being practiced? If it saves lifted by potentially reducing blood clots and heart issues it’s a no brainier isn’t it?

Is it because the drive is to jab as many as possible?

I’ve got my second vaccine due, would it work if I ask the vaccinator to aspirate? Or will I just be ignored?

I know John Campbell is not a medical doctor but a nurse with a phd, but that doesn’t negate what he is taking about..if it’s got credibility

Bump

Vaccinator here. We do 60 people every 15 minute slot. There's no way we would physically have the time to aspirate each patient.

Also imagine the wastage involved.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5333604/

@ohnotanotherusername thank you for the response- are we saying that safety is not as important then?

The advice from PHE is not to aspirate. Your YouTube link is just one person’s opinion.

You would be unreasonable to ask your vaccinator to do this - it’s quite likely that they will never have been trained in the technique.

@MegCleary thank you - will have a read

I've never had a vaccine where they have aspirated - and I've had flu vaccine every year, pneumonia one, tetanus/diphtheria recently...

Ask and be prepared for a possible rude response. It’s been reported. This has been spoken about for months as being a possible cause of at least some of the serious side effects.

Perhaps we would have a better % vax’d if the side effect rates dropped.

[quote Confused10101]@ohnotanotherusername thank you for the response- are we saying that safety is not as important then?[/quote]

Of course not. Safety first. Do you think any of us want to go home and wonder if we've indirectly contributed to someone's death?!

The argument and evidence for and against aspiration is inconclusive as to which is 'better'.

If a lack of aspiration was causing blood clots/myocarditis/pericarditis as he claims, you'd expect these events to be randomly distributed in the population and across the vaccines used.

Clearly they're not, suggesting this isn't a risk factor for these AEs.

He isn't qualified to be making these claims and if this was a genuine issue you would expect it be picked up by some of the many cardiologists/vascular consultants who have been advising on these side effects.

@ohnotanotherusername

Vaccinator here. We do 60 people every 15 minute slot. There's no way we would physically have the time to aspirate each patient.

I'm a nurse, 22 years have given many many IM injections. Each and every time I aspirate you ensure I am not in a blood vessel. It's standard practice. Why are they not doing this with vaccines? It's literally bog standard practice that takes 2 seconds.

@ohnotanotherusername no I’m not saying that..just wondering if this practice reduces adverse issues like he says in the video why it’s not being looked into

www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.29.450356v1.full.pdf

See summary paragraph.

Let’s err on the side of caution if it takes 5 more seconds. Thanks!

Just to be clear I’m not a fan of John Campbell or hang in every word he says/ I was searching for how much vitamin d to take and his videos applied on the search results and I watched a couple- this being one of them!

From the day this pandemic began I’ve lost trust in a lot of people-specially politicians and ‘experts’!!

@ollyollyoxenfree

If a lack of aspiration was causing blood clots/myocarditis/pericarditis as he claims, you'd expect these events to be randomly distributed in the population and across the vaccines used.

Clearly they're not, suggesting this isn't a risk factor for these AEs.

He isn't qualified to be making these claims and if this was a genuine issue you would expect it be picked up by some of the many cardiologists/vascular consultants who have been advising on these side effects.

Yes good point @ollyollyoxenfree I did wonder this exact thing just now- as I say too many experts and everyone wants their 5 mins of spot light!!

@Confused10101

I know John Campbell is not a medical doctor but a nurse with a phd, but that doesn’t negate what he is taking about..if it’s got credibility

*Why do you have to be a medical Dr to have credibility? A registered nurse should be able to have credibility without this statement. I can assure you that nurses give IM injections all the time and are literally the people who will have knowledge of to do this. Drs do not routinely give IM injections.

But that's aside, I fully agree with him that all IM injections should be aspirated. It takes no time*.

@phantomgirl22 yes agree- that’s what I was saying as well..I guess badly worded. It doesn’t matter - if what he says has credibility should be looked into and as a nurse I think he is in a better position than a doctor

@phantomgirl22 do you vaccinate? Can I come to you? You seem to be practicing a safer methodology!!! :-)

@phantomgirl22 see that interesting as they don't tell us to aspirate now.

No I am not giving Covid vaccines. But have given numerous tetanus, flu, hep B vaccines.

For those here saying it in a waste, it takes 2 seconds. Where is work a patient was accidentally revivers intravenous adrenaline ( only to be give IV in a cardiac arrest) she as having severe allergic reaction so needed adrenaline intramuscularly, the injection was not aspirated as should have been and went into a blood vessel. Patient ended up in ITU. Survived. But clearly as massive SI and never event which tightly involved staff suspension while investigated and a very sick patient.

[quote phantomgirl22]@Confused10101

I know John Campbell is not a medical doctor but a nurse with a phd, but that doesn’t negate what he is taking about..if it’s got credibility

*Why do you have to be a medical Dr to have credibility? A registered nurse should be able to have credibility without this statement. I can assure you that nurses give IM injections all the time and are literally the people who will have knowledge of to do this. Drs do not routinely give IM injections.

But that's aside, I fully agree with him that all IM injections should be aspirated. It takes no time*.[/quote]
The JCVI themselves advise vaccines don't need to be aspirated before injection.

Campbell is making these claims based on the specific components of the vaccines themselves and using in vitro and murine data to try and prove it. This is what he's not qualified to comment on IMO as he's not a research scientist and has no cardiology or vascular expertise.

Like I said, you would expect those with expertise to have picked up on this if it was a genuine issue.

[quote ohnotanotherusername]@phantomgirl22 see that interesting as they don't tell us to aspirate now. [/quote]
Can I ask are you a RGN or have you been trained to give Covid vaccines?

@ollyollyoxenfree to be fair we do not yet know enough about these vaccines and risks if we accidentally enter a blood vessel. See my exoskeleton below from one such accident. Clearly with a much more dangerous drug.

But until we know now about this particularly vaccine via IV route we should be precautionary.

It's such a small thing to do when doing an IM vaccine, literally 2 seconds. I imagine they don't want to train the vaccinators who are not qualified to do this though as it complicates things.

@phantomgirl22 could I ask when you had your vaccine did you request the vaccinator to aspirate?