To think I should have a right to know how many cases at school?

[Workinghardeveryday]

I have 3 kids, 2 at Primary and 1 at High School.

I have asked this morning if I can be informed of any cases in my children’s classes and been told no.

I am CEV and there is a good chance the vaccine didn’t work. I homeschooled up until March, realised I need to let my kids get a proper education, after all I am no teacher!

I would however like to be able to weigh up the pros and cons of sending them if a child has tested positive!!

And sending her kids to school when there are definitely 5 known cases (for example) in their class is more likely to result in them catching Covid than if there are no known cases. Mathematical fact.

We take precautions outside of our daughter going to nursery - we shop online only and meet people predominantly outside. My husband has to go to the office 2 days a week but commutes outside of rush hour, wears an FFP3 mask and doesn't go to indoor work events. I work from home. All that lowers risk, although of course it doesn't eliminate it. So I would like nursery to tell me if there is case and I can decide to lower my risk there too by keeping my daughter at home for a suitable period.

@noblegiraffe

Throwing your hands up and saying ‘there’s no way to eliminate risk therefore we shouldn’t seek to lessen it in any way’ is silly.

Spot on

I don't know how many ways to say it. The argument around preventing a child getting covid just makes no sense - literally the only way to do it is to put that child in a full body respirator, probably for the rest of their life. Even if they are vaccinated they could still get it, as many vaccinated adults have. If a child goes out in the world there is a risk they will catch a virus of some sort and covid is one of the many many viruses they could catch.

I don't know what you're on about with 'collateral damage' @EarlGreywithLemon - the fact that the OP is vulnerable doesn't change the fact that covid is everywhere and children pick it up no matter what the mitigation measures are. It's a very tough position to be in, but it's also true that there is no reason for the OP to believe she will definitely get very ill - for everyone the chances of being ok are far far far higher than being serious ill or dying.

As noblegiraffe explained it's about REDUCING THE RISK or POSTPONING IT until there are improved outcomes. Both of those are possible!

In my tutor group of 20, 12 have had Covid. 4 still can't smell, 1 has no taste and 2 can do neither. They hate it. Who knows if that's fir life now. V sad.

"The argument around preventing a child getting covid just makes no sense - literally the only way to do it is to put that child in a full body respirator, probably for the rest of their life. "

There you go again. Drama.

Mitigate risk. Not eliminate.

@EarlGreywithLemon

As noblegiraffe explained it's about REDUCING THE RISK or POSTPONING IT until there are improved outcomes. Both of those are possible!

Ok. You believe it's possible, I don't. I also don't think it's healthy to believe you have the power to prevent yourself or your child from catching a highly contagious illness that is everywhere - I think that leads to people feeling stressed and guilty about things they can't control and makes them feel ashamed and like a failure when they inevitably can't achieve it.

Honestly this just smacks of dog in the manger. You don't want information and therefore you don't want anyone else to have it.

Yep. A friend’s teenage daughter couldn’t eat for a while and now uses a peg on her nose when she’s eating because everything tastes foul to her. And she and her mother think she got off lightly.

@Notonthestairs

Honestly this just smacks of dog in the manger. You don't want information and therefore you don't want anyone else to have it.

Everyone can have the information, I honestly don't care. My argument is around what the purpose of that information is.

@EarlGreywithLemon but it's ok for most kids to get COVID as they don't die. No, but they'll be left with a long term issue that makes their lives miserable. As adults we should be trying to prevent that. But we are not.

Whereas catching covid is oh so great for your health?
And being told we all now have to make individual informed choices and risk assessments, but being given no information - I’m sure that’s not stressful at all.
Just thank your lucky stars that you’re not immunosuppressed and being put in this position.

[quote mumsneedwine]@EarlGreywithLemon but it's ok for most kids to get COVID as they don't die. No, but they'll be left with a long term issue that makes their lives miserable. As adults we should be trying to prevent that. But we are not. [/quote]
Quite. Or with long term sick parents or worse. Great outcome all around.

"I think that leads to people feeling stressed and guilty about things they can't control and makes them feel ashamed and like a failure when they inevitably can't achieve it."

Nothing in the Op suggests this. Nothing in the thread suggests this. More dramatic licence.

@EarlGreywithLemon

Whereas catching covid is oh so great for your health? And being told we all now have to make individual informed choices and risk assessments, but being given no information - I’m sure that’s not stressful at all. Just thank your lucky stars that you’re not immunosuppressed and being put in this position.

You don't seem to be hearing what I'm saying.

The notion of making 'individual informed choices and risk assessments' is total bollocks with a highly contagious illness with very indistinct symptoms- you simply cannot know who does and doesn't have covid at any one time, it's not possible to have the information to make 'informed individual choices.' So instead you have people stressing, trying to glean information that is inaccurate in order to somehow protect themselves. I genuinely think the 'stay safe'' narrative is evil - it has given people the notion that they can somehow protect themselves and their loved ones indefinitely from a completely unpredictable and unidentifiable risk. What a total headfuck.

I think you think I'm being argumentative with you. I'm not. I'm just seeing this from a totally different perspective. I do get where you're coming from but it doesn't make sense with how I see it. I don't know if there's any more to say than that.

@Notonthestairs

"I think that leads to people feeling stressed and guilty about things they can't control and makes them feel ashamed and like a failure when they inevitably can't achieve it."

Nothing in the Op suggests this. Nothing in the thread suggests this. More dramatic licence.

There's no 'dramatic licence.' I'm talking about my experience of people feeling extremely stressed about trying to risk assess seeing loved ones and going to parties and such.

Nothing to do with this thread then. I've answered your questions but there is very little point engaging with you.

Op - I understand what you are trying to achieve (not 💯 certainty just added information) and wish you well.

Nope. I can choose not to shop in the supermarket but online. That is an individual informed risk assessment based on facts about covid transmission. And it does absolutely reduce my risk. I can choose to meet my friend for a country walk rather than a pub. Likewise. And I can choose to keep my daughter at home if another child is known to have COVID at nursery. It’s not completely unpredictable, and some elements are within our control. On the other hand, some people may decide they don’t care about getting Covid as much as they care about meeting indoors in a pub, so they’ll choose to go to the pub.
But I do agree with you that there are limitations - we can reduce not eliminate risk, and the government implying otherwise is indeed a headfuck.

I wish you would stop talking about us Carbunkle and do some listening.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

I wish you would stop talking about us Carbunkle and do some listening.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate I am listening, I just don't agree.

Really? You're listening when we say we're TRYING to avoid catching it? You're listening when we say why avoiding the dc catching it in the last few weeks has been helpful? You're listening when we say knowing about diagnosed cases is better than not knowing? Yes, there will probably be asymptomatic cases, we know that, but not knowing about the diagnosed cases doesn't make that better. We can't mitigate for unknown situations but we can mitigate for known situations. It won't keep us 100% safe, we're well aware of our vulnerability, but it might help a bit. And that's all we have.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

Really? You're listening when we say we're TRYING to avoid catching it? You're listening when we say why avoiding the dc catching it in the last few weeks has been helpful? You're listening when we say knowing about diagnosed cases is better than not knowing? Yes, there will probably be asymptomatic cases, we know that, but not knowing about the diagnosed cases doesn't make that better. We can't mitigate for unknown situations but we can mitigate for known situations. It won't keep us 100% safe, we're well aware of our vulnerability, but it might help a bit. And that's all we have.

Fair enough. And if you need the numbers for those reasons, I understand. My approach is different to yours - I don't feel that knowing numbers is helpful because it isn't accurate and because it doesn't help you to genuinely quantify risk. It's just a different viewpoint. I don't see why you need to convince me or have me agree with you?

I don't need to convince you unless you work for the DfE. I'd just like you to stop going on about it and trying to convince this thread that you're right.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

I don't need to convince you unless you work for the DfE. I'd just like you to stop going on about it and trying to convince this thread that you're right.

I have no interest in convincing anyone. I'm just discussing the issue, same as everyone else. I fully accept that you don't agree with me.

You might think you're just discussing it but it smacks as I said of not actually listening to the people it affects. It's not an interesting hypothetical discussion for some of us. It's been reality for 18 months.