To think I should have a right to know how many cases at school?

[Workinghardeveryday]

I have 3 kids, 2 at Primary and 1 at High School.

I have asked this morning if I can be informed of any cases in my children’s classes and been told no.

I am CEV and there is a good chance the vaccine didn’t work. I homeschooled up until March, realised I need to let my kids get a proper education, after all I am no teacher!

I would however like to be able to weigh up the pros and cons of sending them if a child has tested positive!!

That should have read “As medical professionals have repeatedly been explaining, it is not.”

@EarlGreywithLemon well obviously it's different but the principle is the same as are both common illness / bugs / virus in schools. You cannot possibly know every case etc so OP should just take precautions and worry about themselves and not others. If it's like the govt say and 1 in 3 have no symptoms then you cannot possibly know all cases around you anyway no matter if it's in school, shops, public transport, work etc. It's just not possible.

But it is perfectly possible to disclose the number of known cases, as it has been done all through the pandemic so far.
If not, the OP has an invidious choice to make: either she keeps her kids at home permanently, even when there are no or low numbers of known cases, or she sends them even when cases are high and takes serious health risks for herself. As she is CEV and was told the vaccine is unlikely to have worked for her, that is the reality that she and many more up and down the country face at this moment.

@CyclingIsNotOuting Maybe ask the school for homework and keep the Dc at home for a couple of weeks while the number of cases fall?
Lovely idea. Unfortunately in the real world doing that leaves you open to hefty fines or prosecution and the school's are not obliged to send any learning home.

@wasthataburp how does the OP just take precautions when living in the same house as her unvaccinated dc who are going into school? Can you offer any clearer advice?

@PastMyBestBeforeDate I have taken mine out of school while waiting for baby. School won’t send work home (older Sen school will). Would rather her miss out. Although to exhausted to anyway lol

@EarlGreywithLemon you are exactly right. That is exactly how I feel.

I just don’t get the secrecy after it was rammed down our throats no time ago at all.

This is my life, I just want to be in a position to weigh up the figures from school and decide for myself. It annoys me that the school have taken that decision away from me.

@Notonthestairs

Wanting to put children "in a box for their whole lives" is exactly the same as wanting to know approximate numbers of cases of an easily transmitted virus (and notifiable disease) in a child's school.

It's like you can't really argue the point without amping it up to ridiculous levels.

This. Or it's just flu. Or you want lockdown. Or kids don't get ill. 'Only' affects vulnerable (it doesn't, but shouldn't we be protecting all kids, or do we only care about 'vulnerable' or 'mental health' of kids and their families/teachers if it's to come out of lockdown). It's so tedious.

@MilesJuppIsMyBitch

Why are you so intent on persuading people to your view, *@TheDailyCarbunkle* ?

People on this thread have outlined their reasons for their views.

You don't agree, but that is surely the end of it?

Why are you so massively invested in this? Us more cautious folk are not going to change your views, but neither are you going to change ours. Discussion is helpful, but your frustration and inability to sympathise radiate from your posts.

I can completely see why people think as you do, but I have my own solid reasons for making different choices. A bit of respect would be nice.

I am engaging in a discussion, same as you are @MilesJuppIsMyBitch. I was responding to the idea that people want to expose their kids to covid. I have no interest in persuading you, I am explaining my view, just as you are explaining yours.

[quote EarlGreywithLemon]@TheDailyCarbunkle I have tried to explain in the past why sepsis and COVID are not comparable and it’s got me nowhere, so I won’t bother this time. But I will say that yes, I am very aware of the signs of sepsis and do worry about it when appropriate. Hence when my daughter developed cold hands and feet with a high temperature I whisked her straight to the GP as fast as my legs could carry us.
Also you know full well that no one is talking about putting children in a box, but just about sensible mitigations like masks, good ventilation, trying to meet people outside more than inside, isolation of household contacts, testing etc. The virus can be controlled - see again Germany.
Polio is very comparable with covid in terms of the proportion of people who are seriously affected. If this was a polio outbreak, would you be happy to take no measures to control it?[/quote]
What I'm not clear on is what the purpose of those 'sensible mitigations' is. If it's to slow down the spread, that sort of makes sense, but all it means is that your child won't get covid now, they'll get it later. What I'm hearing in the posts here is a desire for children never to be exposed to covid, which is nigh on impossible, no matter how many masks or how much ventilation is used.

Besides all of that, the point I was making is that knowing how many confirmed cases there are in school is fairly pointless information because it doesn't tell you how many children are contagious but have never tested. So if they say 'zero cases in school' there is no way of knowing if that's actually true.

@Tinydancer321 that's good they're understanding. I suspect because mine's a permanent issue school have less leeway but as Miles pointed out earlier it seems to be luck as to how the school reacts.

@TheDailyCarbunkle Actually there is every point in slowing the spread. Our understanding of the virus is constantly improving, as are treatments. There is research ongoing into who is more susceptible to long covid, why, what the mechanism is, and how we can treat or even prevent it. There is research into better vaccines, including vaccines that would stop transmission or work across variants. Catching COVID now vs a year ago is worlds apart due to vaccines and better treatments, and that’s likely to be the case if you catch it in a year’s time vs now.
I remember anti lockdowners shouting last year that there was no point in slowing the spread, might as well all catch it then, and there might never be a vaccine. Turns out, it was well worth avoiding it for as long as possible.

And how many known cases are at school is a good general indicator of the level of infections - high, or low. Which is essential for OP to know when she makes her decisions.

"What I'm hearing in the posts here is a desire for children never to be exposed to covid, which is nigh on impossible, no matter how many masks or how much ventilation is used."

No. This is NOT what you've read on this thread. That is just your particular baseline. But it's not wholly based on this particular thread.

We know Covid is circulating and for some people that is more concerning than others (for a myriad of reasons). They just want information to assess risk and make choices. No it won't give the full picture. Nobody expects it to.

Isn't that what the Government's position is - give people freedom to make their own choices? (mask no mask etc).

Many schools are notifying parents (in broad terms and more detailed where appropriate). I've been notified of close contact this week and am grateful to have a heads up. I have taken appropriate action. It's that straightforward.

The issue is how the government have done it. It’s meaning a big spread now, where if it was done a little slower people could have the chance to protect them selfs as much as they can. But by opening the good gates it’s impossible.

It may have already been asked but do you expect to be informed about all serious illnesses at school? e.g. would you be expected to hear about a case of measles in the class or chicken pox etc?

There's a treatment now to help immunosuppressed patients in hospital with Covid too. It was rolled out a week or two ago.
I'm having a third jab in the next few days. My teenager has had her first dose.
These are all things that have changed in a matter of weeks.

Yes Major it has been asked. Many times.

@Notonthestairs

"What I'm hearing in the posts here is a desire for children never to be exposed to covid, which is nigh on impossible, no matter how many masks or how much ventilation is used."

No. This is NOT what you've read on this thread. That is just your particular baseline. But it's not wholly based on this particular thread.

We know Covid is circulating and for some people that is more concerning than others (for a myriad of reasons). They just want information to assess risk and make choices. No it won't give the full picture. Nobody expects it to.

Isn't that what the Government's position is - give people freedom to make their own choices? (mask no mask etc).

Many schools are notifying parents (in broad terms and more detailed where appropriate). I've been notified of close contact this week and am grateful to have a heads up. I have taken appropriate action. It's that straightforward.

If everyone accepts that their child will be exposed to covid, that it's pretty much inevitable, then what's the point of risk assessing? That's a genuine question btw, I'm not asking to be goady. Surely if you know it's impossible to prevent your child from being exposed, then the numbers of infections isn't useful?

The viewpoint I'm coming at it from (and I'm not expecting you to agree, just to be clear) is that assessing risk is so difficult as to be almost impossible. Knowing numbers at school might give a sense of security - I can understand that - but it doesn't provide any actual security at all. Odds and percentages are essentially meaningless in a situation where there are people together in a room and some might be infected but no one actually knows.

OP, I’m so so sorry you and others are being put in this position. I can’t imagine what that must be like, the level of stress and worry, making choices without having the facts etc.
I think the government have tried to play down and sweep the numbers of cases in schools under the carpet from the very beginning. Remember at the beginning insisting that children don’t transmit covid? Even as studies were coming out from Germany, Switzerland and Israel showing otherwise?
Or insisting that school transmission wasn’t significant. This was in September-November 2020, with packed schools and autumn weather, but based on data from June, with schools only a quarter full max, many lessons outside etc.
It’s a very emotive subject for people, and rightly so. If parents become concerned about sending their kids to schools rife with covid, that could get in the way of the government’s libertarian, every man for himself approach to the pandemic.

Uff! It’s been explained a million times. @TheDailyCarbunkle the OP would take her kids out of school at high case numbers so she, OP, doesn’t get covid from them and potentially get very very ill. Is that clear enough?
And if the kids are exposed to covid later, rather than now, that could improve outcomes for them, for the op and for the rest of us. In fact, if better vaccines become available - and we’ve seen it can be done quickly - catching COVID might - just might/ not even be inevitable.

@EarlGreywithLemon

Uff! It’s been explained a million times. *@TheDailyCarbunkle* the OP would take her kids out of school at high case numbers so she, OP, doesn’t get covid from them and potentially get very very ill. Is that clear enough? And if the kids are exposed to covid later, rather than now, that could improve outcomes for them, for the op and for the rest of us. In fact, if better vaccines become available - and we’ve seen it can be done quickly - catching COVID might - just might/ not even be inevitable.

My point which I've made a hundred times, is that even with low case numbers her kids can still get covid. The child sitting next to her child can have covid and never even know. And you have said exactly what I've been hearing but others have denied - that you expect it to be possible for a child never to get covid.

"If everyone accepts that their child will be exposed to covid, that it's pretty much inevitable, then what's the point of risk assessing?"

Fair question. I can only answer to my own circumstances. We've been notified of close contact so I've rearranged one visit to family who is just out of hospital surgery (swapped weekends with another family member) and postponed a small catch up with friends (CEV).
Our child is now doing additional testing and I check temperatures. They spend 2 hours + in school taxi each day and I don't want to them pass anything on if I can avoid it. Maybe the taxi driver doesn't care if he catches CV, might have had it before, I don't know.
I just mitigate the bits I can where practical.

I'm fortunate because when we (my family) catch CV (again) I think we will be ok. But it's simply not true of all the people we mix with.

@TheDailyCarbunkle what's your gotcha moment here exactly? The working hypothesis here is that it's worth delaying kids - all kids, but the OP's and CEV people's kids especially- getting COVID. And it is. And yes, of course there is a chance they might never get Covid. The OP's kids could be over 12, or about to turn 12, in which case they could be due a jab soon. Trials have concluded in the US and emergency application has been filed for Covid vaccines for over 5s. New Zealand is talking about vaccines for under 5s. That could well happen here in a matter of months. That's leaving aside what I just wrote about better treatments vaccines etc. So catching it and giving it to their very vulnerable mother is well worth postponing for as long as humanly possible.
What I am hearing is you telling the OP, and other vulnerable parents, is "you'll get very ill so just accept it. You are collateral damage, let the rest of us get on with it." And why on earth would she accept that? How would you feel if you were in her position? Put yourself in her shoes and walk in them for a minute!

Throwing your hands up and saying ‘there’s no way to eliminate risk therefore we shouldn’t seek to lessen it in any way’ is silly.