So families with 12-17 years olds still can't really travel?

[MsFogi]

If I have read the various requirements (UK and EU countries) correctly - it seems teenagers getting one jab won't count as vaccinated for EU travel (eg in France they won't have a vaccine passport so won't be able to to into restaurants, museums etc etc without a covid test from a pharmacy every few days) and they'll still have to have a waste of time PCR test on their return. Which means short visits to Europe are pretty much a write-off and it's not looking great for holidays abroad generally. This seems awfully unfair - that the one jab puts them in limbo.

Currently the new rules from October as stated on the gov.uk website do not clarify at all whether under-18s have to isolate on return as many of them will not be ‘fully vaccinated’ by half term. But I haven’t looked this morning and might have missed something anyway.

Having said that, it makes no sense whatsoever to penalise a whole section of the population who have not had the chance to be ‘fully vaccinated’. So I’m expecting the exemption for that age group to be clarified 🤞🤞🤞

As @Blubells says, if they DO have to isolate, that means no travelling abroad, as it won’t be practical or acceptable to miss school on return.

It’s most likely that the under 18 rules of not having to isolate will remain on place just as they do now

On the gov site it’s more an overview for now

The uk will not stipulate isolation rules for under 18 until all have had time to be double vax - that’s exactly what they did for adults

Most uk brits - I know not all - tend to holiday in Spain and Greece and neither impose any restrictions socially on not vax people

Their own completion rate of vax in teens isn’t that high yet esp in some areas

France largely did it to improve uptake when many french were hesitant or the vaccine

It’s possible many countries won’t impose such restrictions

Certainly Spain will not do anything that prevents brats coming - that will never happen

My understanding is that when the guidance is updated in 2 weeks, 12-15 year olds will be considered as fully vaccinated from the UK point of view

But what about 16-17 year olds?

Portugal is only interested in tests - they don't recognise the NHS covid pass.

Friends went to Portugal in the summer. They used their nhs pass to go in restaurants, etc.

@Blubells

My understanding is that when the guidance is updated in 2 weeks, 12-15 year olds will be considered as fully vaccinated from the UK point of view

But what about 16-17 year olds?

Oh yes that age group too - i think the rationale is that they are fully vaccinated as far as they can be within what the UK is offering to that age group. It will be good if they can clarify this fir certain soon though.

Just seen this on Twitter. Will probably be true and guidance updated soon.

I've mentioned this issue re 12-16y on a few threads when child vaccines were discussed and no one seemed bothered or realised that teens could end up in limbo and unable to really travel much. Because other countries have chosen to vaccinate 12+ proper;y it means that if we don't they become more restricted.

I think the option for our teens should be a choice.
Yes, some don't want the vaccine for their teens - so let them choose not to, even if they have restrictions regarding travel.
But they should be letting others make the choice.

Friends with family in Europe have found it really frustrating too as they still are struggling to see them. One I know has dual nationality and is hoping to get their child fully jabbed over there instead to avoid the issue.

The times is reporting DfT as saying that partly vaccinated over 11s will have to quarantine (with test to release on Day 5)

Child confusion for families hoping for a half-term abroad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/47f9de5a-18c0-11ec-90af-743585f1287c?shareToken=40af86ac51c970f0b9571e67184c0c3f

[quote legalalien]The times is reporting DfT as saying that partly vaccinated over 11s will have to quarantine (with test to release on Day 5)

Child confusion for families hoping for a half-term abroad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/47f9de5a-18c0-11ec-90af-743585f1287c?shareToken=40af86ac51c970f0b9571e67184c0c3f[/quote]
Oh so many mixed messages on this… so now they are saying 12 and overs do need 2 vaccines after all??

@Watapalava

Most uk brits - I know not all - tend to holiday in Spain and Greece and neither impose any restrictions socially on not vax people

Their own completion rate of vax in teens isn’t that high yet esp in some areas

France largely did it to improve uptake when many french were hesitant or the vaccine

It’s possible many countries won’t impose such restrictions

Certainly Spain will not do anything that prevents brats coming - that will never happen

Why do you keep saying there are no restrictions on non vaccinated people? There are restrictions on vaccinated people let alone non vaccinated!

Restrictions currently in place in Greece:

www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/travelling-to-greece-amid-covid-19-rules-restrictions-explained/

Restrictions still in place in Spain:

www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/travelling-to-spain-amid-covid-19-rules-restrictions-explained/

Chart comparing % of population vaccinated in main tourist countries for UK added as screenshot.

This article shows figures for teens vaccinated in some tourist countries. 79% in Spain, for example.

www.euronews.com/next/2021/09/14/covid-vaccine-for-children-who-in-europe-is-leading-the-race

Happy to be corrected if there are really "no restrictions socially" on non vaccinated people in Spain or Greece.

Oh my goodness... the posts above from @HairyFloppins and @legalalien seem to suggest completely contradictory things. Really hope clarification is provided soon, so things are clear ASAP for half term, both for the sake of families and the travel companies.

It’s two different things: the advice on what’s recommended in the U.K. (one dose only) and what’s needed for travel. If you travel abroad the U.K. only has power to decide how many conditions and tests apply to kids upon return. If the other country you travel to has different restrictions, that’s their prerogative. And unless the U.K. bites the bullet and offer the second dose to over 12, the reality is that quite a number of countries will not allow teens to move freely unless they do at the very least a paid LFT every so many hours. But in some cases they’ll even impose quarantine. And to be honest, considering the number of cases in schools here, I can’t find the approach wrong.
If you think about a precovid school trip to ski (not my kids school! We’re comprehensive. But we’ve seen other schools doing it)…busloads of teens going to places which are actually pretty small and not exactly medically super equipped (better equipped to fix broken bones and torn ligaments, but with limited capacity in many other aspects, including limits in hotel spaces). You can’t expect them to be outdoors all the time for lunch as weather is what it is. It’d be most unwelcomed, in countries where the rest of the population is well vaccinated including kids

@samsalmon

Oh my goodness... the posts above from *@HairyFloppins and @legalalien* seem to suggest completely contradictory things. Really hope clarification is provided soon, so things are clear ASAP for half term, both for the sake of families and the travel companies.

Absolutely. And the govt needs to put a great big banner on its website telling people to check the rules in place in the country they're visiting which are often different. People on other threads posting about not being allowed to board planes abroad because the authorities abroad don't accept the documentation that the UK govt does. It's as if everyone (including the UK govt) think that because they've said A is valid, all other countries say the same.

*The times is reporting DfT as saying that partly vaccinated over 11s will have to quarantine (with test to release on Day 5)

Child confusion for families hoping for a half-term abroad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/47f9de5a-18c0-11ec-90af-743585f1287c?shareToken=40af86ac51c970f0b9571e67184c0c3f*

I really hope the Times has got it wrong!!!

@Geamhradh, yes they do need to make it much, much clearer, that there are 2 sets of considerations - those in the country you’re travelling to and those for returning to the UK. That means for entry requirements, testing, masking, distancing, vaccine passports, all of it. And that all of this is subject to change, at short notice, in both countries.

The Jet2 website is pretty good at explaining everything in a country-specific way, but they haven’t updated yet for the new rules (presumably trying to work it out themselves...) But the govt should be clearly signposting, no question.

@Blubells

*The times is reporting DfT as saying that partly vaccinated over 11s will have to quarantine (with test to release on Day 5)

Child confusion for families hoping for a half-term abroad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/47f9de5a-18c0-11ec-90af-743585f1287c?shareToken=40af86ac51c970f0b9571e67184c0c3f*

I really hope the Times has got it wrong!!!

Someone has now linked to Shapps saying the opposite Total chaos at the moment. I suppose we just wait and see.

@samsalmon, someone on a FB group has just said "omg thanks I thought there were no restrictions in Portugal because we're British" How can people think that if Portuguese people still have restrictions a visiting Brit won't?

Yes - Times report was incorrect it seems: mobile.twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1439537044607352832

So are children in the U.K. being vaccinated at 11 or 12?
I only ask as we’re hoping to visit from Australia next year and my eldest will be 11, but we’re only vaccinating 12+ over here so it would be a real problem if he had to isolate as we only come for 3-4 weeks anyway!

Oh hang on, reading that Twitter link seems to suggest it would be fine.

It is highly likely that kids will be offered 2nd vaccine too….they just want to wait a few weeks for more evidence.
Given none of the healthy 12-15s have even had one dose yet, and given a second doesn’t happen until at least 8 weeks later, we are looking at very few kids being double jabbed anytime well before Christmas.

Oct Half term is too soon for booking holidays in my view. By Christmas or Feb Half Term many of these kids probably will have been double dosed.

And yes, to people needing to realise that what the UK mandates for its kids and what other countries require in terms of vaccination is different.

No-one will really be any worse off by October than was expected. We didn’t imagine young teens would be double jabbed and able to travel test-free….and that will be the case. However, by Christmas, some are likely to be double jabbed.

The best thing is to get the jab as soon as it’s available. Then 8 weeks will pass and if the 2nd dose is approved, your kids will be ready to have it. If you delay, the 8-12 week gap might further delay being able to travel.

It is 12. Pfizer isn’t authorised for under 12s.

It seems that every other country in the world has had enough evidence for months on vaccinating. over 12yo.

Why. is the U.K. still waiting for more. evidence?

The best thing is to get the jab as soon as it’s available. Then 8 weeks will pass and if the 2nd dose is approved, your kids will be ready to have it. If you delay, the 8-12 week gap might further delay being able to travel.

No, because under 18s are exempt from the new travel rules that apply to unvaccinated adults. They are free to travel, regardless of their vaccine status.

But they might not be welcomed to other countries as fully vaccinated, when they have only had 1 jab. That is why having the 2nd dose is important for travel (never mind the protection from Covid benefits).