Why is the UK getting more cases than France?

[TheYearOfSmallThings]

The UK started vaccinating before France, and there has been a lot of vaccine resistance in France. But their Delta wave was smaller, and continues to decline after peaking, whereas the UK's has plateaued. Life is fairly normal in both countries now.

I'm sure there is an explanation for this that I'm missing, and I'm hoping this board is the place to find it?

And obviously, vaccination rates need to be looked at in their totality- how many people are vaccinated- tweaking figures to show that X number of people aren't vaccinated because they're not eligible is disingenuous- what we're interested in seeing now is is the number of people vaccinated, whoever they are, however old they are etc enough. Is it working? Is it helping to stop the spread? It's interesting academically to look at the rest, and I'm sure various governments would love for the plebs to get so embroiled in "but we're testing so many more" that we don't notice the simple fact that testing lots of people doesn't make the same people end up in ICU and die.

[quote EileenGC]@rookiemere the price came down massively when they became compulsory.

A pack of 10 medical masks costs 1.50€. FFP2 masks can be bought for 0.60/70€ each. They have also explained to the population how to implement a rotating system which means each mask can be reused safely a few times.

We get free masks at work 3 times a week after testing (which stops this month, finally!), children get masks at school if theirs break or they need another one for whatever reason.[/quote]
I've just ordered a box of 50 X ffp2 from my local pharmacy for €4. The schools are talking about maybe making ffp2 compulsory instead of medical so I thought I'd get prepared!

If it is their mitigations that are keeping cases lower. What’s the long term plan?

Like it or not our strategy was to get rid of restrictions in July and get the inevitable exit wave over and done with in Summer.

Will these countries carry on with restrictions for another year or so? It’s interesting to look at the strategies of other countries without it turning in to a fight.

The jury is still out on mask wearing. The way most people carry on with their masks, they are less hygienic not more. I’ve seen dirty masks, ill-fitting masks, masks worn incorrectly, masks on tables, masks under noses and chins and hanging from one ear.

The majority of face coverings used are useless against Covid.

So many in the U.K. are now dismissive of covid because we have a vaccine, or because we ‘just have to get in with it’ or they had it and it’s just a cold/flu etc. Lots still unvaccinated. Covid spreading easily in deprived areas. Children mixing with no restrictions. No more family isolations with covid in the household. School testing. Breakthrough delta infections in the vaccinated. Lots of festivals/large events over summer. Many masks have been binned, a lot of people have given up any measures at all. I get it it’s been a long time and people what ‘normality’ however a pandemic isn’t that, but they are all valid reasons why its continually high cases here.

@Immaculatemisconception

The jury is still out on mask wearing. The way most people carry on with their masks, they are less hygienic not more. I’ve seen dirty masks, ill-fitting masks, masks worn incorrectly, masks on tables, masks under noses and chins and hanging from one ear.

The majority of face coverings used are useless against Covid.

Worn incorrectly and bits of homemade cloth, definitely. Don't get me wrong, you still see people here walking around with one on their elbow, or under their chin, ready to put it in place when they go inside somewhere. @Delatron, I'm not sure here. The health minister and schools minister have both talked about "restrictions into at least 2022". But, in fairness, for now, I think everyone's priority is to get the kids into school and keep them there. Anything else is a bonus!

@Delatron

If it is their mitigations that are keeping cases lower. What’s the long term plan?

Like it or not our strategy was to get rid of restrictions in July and get the inevitable exit wave over and done with in Summer.

Will these countries carry on with restrictions for another year or so? It’s interesting to look at the strategies of other countries without it turning in to a fight.

I agree re it not needing to be a fight over it

Also listening to Andrew Pollard this morning who spoke very well about sharing vaccines across world, we’ve had an incredibly tough time no doubt but all countries being compared on this thread are doing very well with vaccination.

I agree with pp about keeping dc in school as priority

I think the really harsh lockdowns, not being allowed to visit family at all, has really worn people in the UK out.

Glasgow has had the longest and toughest restrictions anywhere, people are absolutely tired of it. 9mths of not visiting family or friends.

Yet others seem to think the UK didn't have a lockdown!

@Watapalava

Princess that graph means nothing

We are testing way more - sometimes 4x more than some of those countries

They could in reality be in a much worse situation

Over 50 kids in my kids school tested locative this week on the first week back and not a single one was symptomatic

Bet no other countries are doing such ridiculous amount of testing

you have to bloody look for it and test to even know you have it - absolutely crazy

In Germany all school kids have to be tested twice a week and those over 6 have to wear masks indoors.

If you are not fully vaccinated or recovered (within the last 6 months) you have to provide a negative test to do most things here (apart from shopping) such as going to a bar/restaurant, event, museums, indoor play areas etc...so I think the rate of testing must also be very high.

Does anyone know of any other European country that has removed the requirement for household contacts to isolate other than England? Also are there any other countries not offering vaccines to 12 -15 apart from the UK? I think Sweden were holding off but this may have changed. We really do seem to be heading off on our own and we can only now wait and see what the effects will be on hospitalisations and deaths.

They’ve never had the peaks that we had though. It’s quite perplexing.

They keep up public health measures even when not in a peak. We do very little until it's raging then have to take severe action.

Testing?

@donquixotedelamancha

They’ve never had the peaks that we had though. It’s quite perplexing.

They keep up public health measures even when not in a peak. We do very little until it's raging then have to take severe action.

In Nov they had a peak of 86k that’s high even compared with here isn’t it?

I do wonder if the long lockdown from Jan until
March here the last straw for many here. Lockdown fatigue is a real thing.

If France escaped a lockdown in Jan (which I think they did) and they have still being seeing family throughout then they are probably more happy and willing to carry on with some restrictions?
I know they had a pre- Christmas lockdown but nothing since?

I’m wondering if the French way has worked well. Allowing a certain number of cases to bubble away but they haven’t had huge spikes like we have?

Agree schools being open should be prioritised above all this (over pubs and golf Boris!) I don’t agree with masks all day for primary children but that’s a personal opinion.

That’s true @MarshaBradyo but then they came out of lockdown earlier in Dec I think? And cases settled.

I guess all countries are just on different trajectories.
Did they have Christmas mixing?

Then another in 80k in April

I think it’s when Delta hit and where they were with vaccination

I agree that right now I have wondered why re cases, and maybe Covid pass is to do with it

I think a lot of European countries did have Christmas mixing, ie travel if you were going to family.

The most frustrating thing for me has been the UKs hokeycokey approach to it all (I’m mainly concerned with schools). Hard lockdown, eat out help out, hard lockdown, freedom day that’s it no more, and now leaks about an October “circuit breaker.” A PP asked about other countries’ long term plans, but short termist thinking has led to long term consequences in England. One day of mixing after Christmas before closing schools for months ffs.

But no lockdown in April? So cases naturally fell after that peak? I can’t remember what they did. I know their first lockdown was very harsh but can’t remember this year. I know Macron wanted to avoid more lockdowns.

Was April their exit wave? Did we push our exit wave to summer and that’s why are cases are higher now?

Completely agree with that @PersephoneJames I don’t think going from one extreme to another in this country has been a good strategy at all.

One measure could be length of school closure - I wouldn’t disagree with that

I felt awful hearing about Chicago 18mths, but only for state (public) pretty much my worst outcome

I’m not sure how France got out of April peak I think we were earlier woth delta though

We didn't have Christmas mixing in Italy though I expect of course some families flouted it. We live 8km from the rest of the family and from 23rd Dec through to the NY there were only 2 days when we could leave the town. Inside the town you weren't supposed to have big gatherings and there was a 10pm curfew.
I'm not sure here what the mask rule in primary is. They didn't wear them last year, but I think for this coming year it's one of the things still under discussion.

I think ultimately all countries have got some things right, and some things wrong.

This is an interesting thread and it's nice for once not to have extremes on both sides. Shall we throw an invisibility cloak over it so it stays civilised?

In France they don’t use LFT. Only PCR on symptomatic people. Also they now have to pay for a PCR test so they will have less positive cases.

I think the passe sanitaire must have been a big help. To go into any large public place, including department stores or restaurants, you either have to be fully vaccinated or have had a negative test in the last 3 days. And it's so easy to get tests; I was in Paris a couple of weeks ago and there are testing locations at almost every pharmacy and pop up tents in many other locations that will do a free walk-in test, you just have to show your health card. Much simpler than the system in the UK.

So is @DobbyTheHouseElk correct or @witheringrowan?

Presumably the walk in tests are LFTs?

@witheringrowan
Same here, DD and I were in Rome and her EU pass hadn't come through because 12 days hadn't gone by and so we just popped into a tent outside a chemist.