Why is the UK getting more cases than France?

[TheYearOfSmallThings]

The UK started vaccinating before France, and there has been a lot of vaccine resistance in France. But their Delta wave was smaller, and continues to decline after peaking, whereas the UK's has plateaued. Life is fairly normal in both countries now.

I'm sure there is an explanation for this that I'm missing, and I'm hoping this board is the place to find it?

@PrincessNutNuts

Worldometer - France:

Sept 9: 109 deaths
Sept 8: 100 deaths
Sept 7: 152 deaths
Sept 6: 102 deaths
Sept 5: 49 deaths
Sept 4: 83 deaths
Sept 3: 93 deaths

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/france/

@blameitonthecaffeine where did you read the us was testing similarly to us? The data I’ve seen shows them to be testing far far less where France is slightly below us.

According to qorldometer france test exactly half of the tests we do per million population (4000 vs 2000)

I imagine high death rate in USA is down to diet and obesity

Obesity itself is an underlying issue but often isn’t mentioned

I suspect it’s our testing then not masks.

@BunsyGirl

There are currently around 100 Covid deaths per day in France despite them having a much lower case rate. Why are people so fixated on the number of cases?! We test loads so we find loads…

If deaths are this high I agree with you.

@Delatron and @Watapalava the graph I posted above your comments from Ourworldindata shows France to be testing much more as of fairly recently - even with a lower testing rate why is the uk not experiencing the same downward trend? As France’s testing has gone up, their numbers have gone down. That’s not the case with us - our testing has been steady but so does our case rate.

@Lollipop40

Why are France further ahead with vaccines when they started much later than we did and there was so much hesitancy to start with?

They started later but once the big vaccinodromes opened up with lots of personal on hand it got were a bit like a Diesel engine and the daily rates of vaccination got very high..

As for the vaccine hesitancy here I always got the impression that the UK media was way way overplaying it and didn’t understand the fact that many with doubts would be swayed by pleas for “solidarity”….basically doing what’s right for the community.

@TheYearOfSmallThings

France have vaccinated more people than we have.

Is that correct? Whatever I was looking at showed the UK fully vaccinated rate slightly higher.

I'm sure some is due to testing, because the infections were higher by a greater multiple than deaths. But deaths are still higher in the UK.

Maybe it is the stricter measures, although the French people I know are not especially compliant!

Is the relative rate on here? I thought we were slightly above too

@PersephoneJames Yes, but you criticising that only 60% are vaccinated is disingenuous, a significant proportion of that number can’t get vaccinated even if they wanted. 90% of those eligible have had one and 80% have had two.

France will obviously have a higher total vaccination rate as they are allowing children to also have the vaccination. You are playing the statistics to make it seem worse.

People forget that 'mask' in the UK means face covering. You can literally just cut up an old T-shirt, put it over your face, and call that a mask. Last week I saw someone on the tube with what looked like a silky cocktail dress material shaped into a mask, one layer. That's NOT a mask.

Last time I was there (early summer), France insisted on medical-grade masks. Which have been proven to be at least somewhat more effective than just any piece of material people like to call masks.

In Germany where I live, FFP2 masks are mandatory. You can't use public transport or go into a shop unless you're wearing FFP2 (in my state at least). Why? Because they're actually effective. Children under 12 can use a medical one (the blue disposable ones, although they're now in all colours). They slightly relaxed the requirement last month and for some indoor spaces (like museums) you can now use medical instead of FFP2.

You are also challenged by the security staff at the door or inside the supermarket, you get fined on the train if not wearing your FFP2 properly. You cannot declare yourself exempt - you need to carry a doctor's certificate and even then, businesses have the right to refuse entry to those unmasked, whatever the reason (I don't fully agree with this btw).

If you're going to make masks mandatory, use those that have the greatest effectivity and also protect the wearer. Ever since FFP2 became compulsory, the rates have remained steady-ish and are lower than ever - and it was nothing to do with vaccination as this happened back in February, and in the middle of a winter wave, when something like 5% had been jabbed.

Come on marsgabradyo, it’s been a long pandemic, we all know death rates are reflected a few weeks after case rates. And even those look to be starting to plateau en france. We’re still climbing.

proper sick pay is my guess.

[quote elbea]@PersephoneJames Yes, but you criticising that only 60% are vaccinated is disingenuous, a significant proportion of that number can’t get vaccinated even if they wanted. 90% of those eligible have had one and 80% have had two.

France will obviously have a higher total vaccination rate as they are allowing children to also have the vaccination. You are playing the statistics to make it seem worse.[/quote]
It's funny how the UK media gives vaccination percentages out of those eligible, for the UK. But when reporting Europe, they give percentages out of total population. So of course the numbers seem much, much lower.

Just google 'UK vaccination rate', or any other country, and look at the Google graph. It will be the same for every country - out of total population - and the UK is only ever so slightly ahead, at 65%. Italy, Germany, France are all at 62-63%. Spain is 74%, as is Iceland.

Come on marsgabradyo

Eh? Death rate does matter. Even if people get all arsey about posts which is an odd reaction.

People seem cross if we’re not all invested in who’s doing worse. I’m not it’s true. But vaguely had thought why is France low so looked at thread.

Just had a look at Portugal - 78%. Malta - 82%.
That's virtually everyone who is eligible. Why aren't we praising them in the media? That's what I call world-leading rates.

@elbea with respect I completely disagree.

Whether or not those people can get vaccinated is irrelevant because they are part of the population! Statistics aren’t politics. The reason for a lower vaccine rate may be political decisions not vaccine hesitancy but you can’t eliminate part of the population from its numbers to feel better about a situation because those people exist!

Of course the government would like you to think of it that way in order to dodge blame for the school fiascos but like it or not, 1/3 or British people are unprotected versus just over a quarter of French - when judging why case rates are different this is very relevant.

@MarshaBradyo

Come on marsgabradyo

Eh? Death rate does matter. Even if people get all arsey about posts which is an odd reaction.

People seem cross if we’re not all invested in who’s doing worse. I’m not it’s true. But vaguely had thought why is France low so looked at thread.

Death rates do matter, did I say they didn’t?

(Argh too many auxiliaries in that sentence!)

But you can read a downward trend in death rates in France - people are trying to point out they’re high as a sort of “see Boris hasn’t done so badly” point. Ignoring the fact they’re on the opposite trajectory to ours.

You’re right in that there’s no point comparing really but it is the point of this particular thread.

I haven’t thought it through just quickly posted but yes there’s probably more to it, will read properly later

@EileenGC Britain actually has a higher uptake rate than France when you compare data for vaccination of those eligible.

@EileenGC I agree with what you're saying about the quality of the masks.
I believe the main reason that medical grade masks are not insisted upon in Scotland is because of the cost - either to the individuals or to the state. How are the medical grade masks paid for in Germany?

France have higher vax rate (despite slower start) and continuing mitigations.
Despite slower start, most EU countries now have higher vax than UK.

Med grade masks in Italy are given to schools, and are now about 50 masks for €3 if you have to buy them. They are also handed out everywhere, trains etc. I have been on several trains recently (intercity types) and you are given a "safety pack" when you board with masks and water.

Italian schools are only just going back, so it will be interesting to see what their figures are like over the next few weeks. Though restrictions are still in place, (and have increased recently- you need a Covid pass for trains now as well as inside eating, museums etc) they are talking about letting classes remove masks if everyone is vaccinated.

I do agree that (callous though it sounds) the number of tests, the number of cases, is pretty much irrelevant now, other than as a tool for statistics bods. The figures that count now are how many are seriously ill, how many in ICU and how many are dying. The other numbers, as can be seen on this thread, will just continue to be cherry-picked according to agendas.

Persephone Actually, they don't; you're right. I thought they'd always been near the top of the testing table but they're actually similar to France. So that's a better explanation of their suddenly v high death rate, I think - they're missing cases too.

On of the biggest anomalies is Mexico. Quarter of the case rate that we have but much higher death rate. Yes, it's possible that access to health care explains some of that but also explains what must surely be 2 million or so cases unidentified due to less testing.

I believe the death rate of the virus in general is 1% in an unvaccinated person? And something like 3% of 1% in a double vaccinated person? We can probably work out fairly accurate case numbers in a country by knowing their death rate and vaxx rate. It's just a case of whether they're catching all the cases.

@rookiemere the price came down massively when they became compulsory.

A pack of 10 medical masks costs 1.50€. FFP2 masks can be bought for 0.60/70€ each. They have also explained to the population how to implement a rotating system which means each mask can be reused safely a few times.

We get free masks at work 3 times a week after testing (which stops this month, finally!), children get masks at school if theirs break or they need another one for whatever reason.