No vaccines for healthy 12 to 15 years old continued

[Staffy1]

Most cases of myocarditis may be treated easily if anyone could be bothered to properly diagnose them. I remember being fobbed off when my son had had a very high temperature for a week and and had already been to the GP within that week. As he had had loud chest noises that sounded unnatural I was worried about his heart but telling the idiot GP this was met with scorn and they couldn’t just check everyone’s heart, it was probably just a virus, no need for antibiotics or any checks. Had to go a third time and ask for someone else to finally get antibiotics which took 3 days to show any improvement. It doesn’t help that my son can’t communicate himself so we often get dismissed. This is why any case of myocarditis scares me as will it be recognised and treated in time or at all?

Is it? TheIrish Times tracker, which is apparently updated daily, says 15.1% of under 18s have had at least one dose.

I suppose it may include under 12s who aren’t eligible.

When 12-15s could first sign up over 100000 signed up in the first few days, they said at the time that there was about 270000 in that age group so I would imagine that the figure of 15% is for all under 18s.

Here we go a link that shows it is higher than your quoted figure m.independent.ie/irish-news/almost-half-of-all-12-15-year-olds-registered-for-a-vaccine-so-far-hse-40771391.html

Also, not sure most cases of myocarditis are mild after the vaccine. I read somewhere that 79% have resolved, which means 21% haven’t. That’s quite high.

I think that might be timing though. At the time of the study some may have been new cases. Deepti Gurdasani was just o my news calling the messaging around myocarditis 'reprehensible'.

I do understand your jitters, though.

There does tend to be an underdiagnosis of conditions , but I guess the medical profession are on the look out now at least.

Funnily enough, those with Long QT and other arrhythmia conditions are hugely encouraged to vaccinate. Heart conditions have now made it on to the 12-15 list.

And people who have had myocarditis are urged by the BHF to get a vaccine...

Yes, I thought that was strange. They must think the risk is worth it as probably people with heart conditions don’t do well with covid.

@Piggywaspushed

And people who have had myocarditis are urged by the BHF to get a vaccine...

Oh, that’s interesting.

That advice not age specific, obviously but my DH was certainly high up list for vaccine as a heart patient.

I'm quite confident in unlucky scenario if my dc had side effects of vaccine, that the drs now know well enough what to look out for. Compared to catching actual covid, the risk is way lower, and since you don't know when he might catch it, it feels way safer to get vaccinated.

@Staffy1 just saw your post on the last thread re myocarditis incidence from COVID. Yes, you would expect to have heard more of the incidence from COVID is as high as 450 in a million. Hospitalisations in young people have been low throughout, even with their high case numbers.

Known risks of covid for 12-15 year olds are very low. Known risks of the vaccine are considerably lower still. Unknown risks of the vaccine are as unknown as the unknown risks of the real thing! My personal conclusion, therefore, is thatthere is no reason whatsoever not to let my 15-year old GCSE student child get vaccinated if it is allowed. I see no benefit in limiting his ability to travel overseas to visit family and friends, no benefit in him taking the higher risk of being ill with covid in his GCSE year than the risk of being ill from vaccination, and no benefit in trying to stop him from getting a vaccination he wants. I see colossal benefits in children’s education being disrupted as little as possible this year and I do not believe that vaccinating 12-15 year olds will have no beneficial effect on levels of school disruption, given the fact that a child’s schooling can be severely disrupted not only by illness of the child itself, but also by absent school staff and parental ill health, as they are not little islands of humanity, they need everything to be functioning around them, too.

@bumbleymummy, this is why it would be useful to know exactly how many 12-17s have had covid and how many have ended up in hospital. If it’s on a par with the vaccine, I would expect at least 200 per million, which could be the case for all I know, or the vaccine may cause more severe cases.

I agree it would be useful to know how severe myocarditis post-vaccination can be compared to how serious post-infection in the 12-15 age group and separately in the 16-18 age group. As I see it, if my child has to be vaccinated at 18 anyway, how much greater in reality is the risk of myocarditis to them at age 15, going on 16, than at age 18??? All the age groups seem mighty arbitrary if you ask me if looking purely at health risks.

In terms of boys’ development, there is quite a big difference between a 12 year old and a 15 year old for a start.

I do know the risk is higher at 17 to 18.

@Piggywaspushed - so they want children to wait until they are in a higher risk group for myocarditis before they vaccinate?!

Just read this.

www.insider.com/uk-minister-allow-teens-override-parents-decision-get-covid-vaccines-2021-9

I think it would be useful to know how much the risk of myocarditis following covid infection is reduced by the vaccine. Many people seem to have been comparing vaccine risks with covid risks when you can still get covid after vaccination. Isn't the comparison how many cases are caused by the vaccine compared with how many are prevented?

So that decision is only allowed to go one way is it? You’re only considered ‘competent’ to make a decision if it’s to decide for the vaccine rather than against it?

@bumbleymummy

So that decision is only allowed to go one way is it? You’re only considered ‘competent’ to make a decision if it’s to decide for the vaccine rather than against it?

Not necessarily. I've talked about Gillick competence with my dc, and explained the final decision is his to make. So far, we want him to get vaccinated and he is keen to get vaccinated. But in case he changed his mind, he can overturn our decision as parents and I will fully support that since I believe he has proper understanding of what's going on in the world right now.

[quote Walkaround]@Piggywaspushed - so they want children to wait until they are in a higher risk group for myocarditis before they vaccinate?![/quote]
I mean... I am sure they don't, but there is an illogic there...

@kowari

I think it would be useful to know how much the risk of myocarditis following covid infection is reduced by the vaccine. Many people seem to have been comparing vaccine risks with covid risks when you can still get covid after vaccination. Isn't the comparison how many cases are caused by the vaccine compared with how many are prevented?

How would you know that they were prevented, though?

Myocarditis is a common side effect of any virus : ergo, prevent serious cases of covid/covid : prevent myocarditis post virus.

As I said, the BHF are v keen on vaccinations to mitigate against cardiac complications.

@kowari

I think it would be useful to know how much the risk of myocarditis following covid infection is reduced by the vaccine. Many people seem to have been comparing vaccine risks with covid risks when you can still get covid after vaccination. Isn't the comparison how many cases are caused by the vaccine compared with how many are prevented?

I don’t know, my concern now is if the vaccine causes a case, or a more severe case than covid would have. If so, you’re even more at risk of serious illness if you catch covid after it. We don’t know if the same person would have the same risk of myocarditis (getting it at all or the severity) from the vaccine as they would from covid, or how many people get it severely from covid vs the vaccine. Of course there are a pile of other nasty complications that could be caused by covid.