No vaccines for healthy 12 to 15 years old continued

[Staffy1]

Most cases of myocarditis may be treated easily if anyone could be bothered to properly diagnose them. I remember being fobbed off when my son had had a very high temperature for a week and and had already been to the GP within that week. As he had had loud chest noises that sounded unnatural I was worried about his heart but telling the idiot GP this was met with scorn and they couldn’t just check everyone’s heart, it was probably just a virus, no need for antibiotics or any checks. Had to go a third time and ask for someone else to finally get antibiotics which took 3 days to show any improvement. It doesn’t help that my son can’t communicate himself so we often get dismissed. This is why any case of myocarditis scares me as will it be recognised and treated in time or at all?

@bumbleymummy - if the vaccinations are done in a school setting, I have never seen the nurses vaccinate a child who says they refuse to be vaccinated, regardless of what any form filled out by their parents says. The law has always enabled children to make choices about their medical care if they are considered competent. I should imagine nobody bothered to ask the Minister the question the reverse way round, though.

I really don't think this s the case. Every report I have read (and have read loads because of heart conditions in family) suggests the majority of the cases were treated in a straightforward fashion. No doubt also true of covid myocarditis in that age group. It is what it is : it isn't more or less serious because of how it came about.

Staffy - if your child doesn’t get the vaccine tomorrow, would there be other opportunities to get it?

I’m pregnant and I found it helpful to discuss it with midwife and doctor.

Things to think about are: exposure (I suppose quite high if child is in school). Medical problems. Data from kids who have been vaccinated.

I chose to wait until 20week scan. I’m due my 2nd jab this week. Good luck with your decision.

How would you know that they were prevented, though?
I don't know, compare cases (rate and severity) of myocarditis following covid infection in otherwise similar groups of vaccinated and unvaccinated young people? My point was about covid causing six times as many cases of myocarditis than the vaccine, you can't just pick the risk that looks better as the vaccine does not stop all the risks of covid.

It's the stat that scientists are using though, so it's what we have available to work from.

Just to come back to exercise which was mentioned on previous thread, people should not really be letting extremely sporty people under 35 exercise in a vigorous fashion for approx 4 weeks after any virus because of undiagnosed myocarditis risk. This is hardly ever enforced in young sporty men.

I am not sure how well it is publicised as a condition - until we hear of an extreme outcome. hence people's sudden interest in it.

@Namenic, thanks. I think I would be able to take him to the walk in vaccine centres that seem to run regularly if he doesn’t have it on Thursday, but think if he’s going to have it sooner is better than later. A better time would have been the start of the holidays, not back at school with the predicted surge of covid from everyone mixing again. That’s another question - is getting covid either just before (but not knowing it) or after the vaccine worse than getting it without the vaccine, as both will mean having to fight off two invaders at once.

@kowari

How would you know that they were prevented, though? I don't know, compare cases (rate and severity) of myocarditis following covid infection in otherwise similar groups of vaccinated and unvaccinated young people? My point was about covid causing six times as many cases of myocarditis than the vaccine, you can't just pick the risk that looks better as the vaccine does not stop all the risks of covid.

Good point

@Piggywaspushed, thanks for all your info.

Just to mention (and no two people are the same) my DS (19) just had covid and had his jab on Sunday. Obviously he needs to be double jabbed plus two weeks to avoid SI. I did think a gap of only 30 days form positive test might produce stronger side effects on a second Pfizer jab. Nothing at all.

Some countries accept 1 vaccine after infection as full immunity seeing as it actually increases antibodies to above the level seen with two doses. Not sure why the U.K. isn’t doing the same. Logistics I guess. Easier to just blanket double vax everyone.

They aren't double vaxxing 16 and 17 year olds here , though.

And, again, you'd need to know (and have proof) you'd had that infection. I am quite sure large numbers of my school who came in with 'hayfever they had never had before' in July had Covid!

True. That’s why antibody tests should be accepted as ‘proof of immunity’ too.

And yes, I know that not having antibodies does not necessarily mean you are not immune. If only t-cell tests were more available!😊

Research showing a higher risk for 12-15 boys - 162.2 per million. Higher than their hospitalisation risk from covid.

“Rates per million following dose 2 among males were 162.2 (ages 12-15) and 94.0 (ages 16-17); among females, rates were 13.0 and 13.4 per million, respectively. For boys 12-15 without medical comorbidities receiving their second mRNA vaccination dose, the rate of CAE is 3.7-6.1 times higher than their 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization risk as of August 21, 2021 (7-day hospitalizations 1.5/100k population) and 2.6-4.3-fold higher at times of high weekly hospitalization risk (2.1/100k), such as during January 2021.”

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

(Preprint)

@bumbleymummy, That’s quite scary. This article has different figures, I presume both America and both quite recent:

www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-information-for-parents-on-myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-202107012523

I’m beginning to wonder if one dose of the vaccine is better than two or none if most myocarditis cases are after the second dose, and at least one dose would give some protection against covid. @Piggywaspushed, where are you as you say they are only doing one dose for 16-17 year olds?

This is what they are currently doing in UK. Not sure what happens as cohort turns 18 though!

Oh really, they are only doing one jab for 16-17 year olds here? So I assume the same for 12-15 year olds (that are eligible).

Also long term issues remaining:

"We describe the evolution of cardiac magnetic resonance imaging findings in 16 patients, aged 12-17 years, with myopericarditis after the second dose of the Pfizer mRNA coronavirus disease 2019 vaccine. Although all patients showed rapid clinical improvement, many had persistent cardiac magnetic resonance imaging findings at 3- to 8-month follow-up. (J Pediatr 2022;245:233-7)". www.jpeds.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0022-3476%2822%2900282-7