Reason for vaccinating 12-15

[SoOvethis]

I was listening to Maajid Nawaz yesterday and he said his personal belief for why the government will want to override the JCVI decision not to vaccinate healthy 12-15 year olds is because he thinks the government will want to introduce domestic vaccine passports and they can’t restrict 12 plus year olds unless they have been given the option to have a vaccine!

Anyone else feel this is probably most likely what will happen? As that is already happening in other countries…

Let’s keep in mind that the vaccine is not sterilising - so you can still catch Covid and spread it if you have it with the same amount of viral load as someone who isn’t vaccinated. Also as mentioned before - research is showing that natural immunity is broader and longer lasting.

I don’t mind the vaccine being offered to healthy 12-15 year olds for those who want it as long as my son won’t be at a disadvantage because he has not had it. But I have a bad feeling that this won’t be the case…

See this is what I don't get- if the risk of covid is higher than the vaccine why are they advising against the vaccine.

@Sonarl my dd also gets things badly, has asthma as well. My hunch is the vaccination is a better plan than covid. But I'm so confused as to why the jcvi have taken this line.

Re travel - I've just looked at the three places we may want to, we actually can't go to anyone of them if she isn't fully vaccinated. I think we might sit next summer out as its already a bit late to book dog care

@olivethegreat

So basically this age group may not be able to travel to EU until they are 18. Madness .

Not the EU as a whole individual countries have their own specific entry requirements. As do others outside the EU.

@Daisydoor12

“ Surely vaccination passports for children (over 12s) can’t be introduced because all the other childhood vaccinations are not forced upon parents& their children. Children are not discriminated against if they have not received their MMR vaccination so it wouldn’t be right for covid to be treated any differently. ”

You’d think so but apparently it’s ok to force vaccine passports on adults so…

“So basically this age group may not be able to travel to EU until they are 18.”

Brexit + covid passports = fewer opportunities for our children. Brilliant.

Tbh both my kids have had it. Youngest at 6 was poorly. 11 year old dd was fine nil symptoms. If the risks outweighs benefits I.e blood clots etc then why would I vaccinate if it isn't needed. I am vaccinated

[quote Walkaround]@PurpleDaisies - there is no push to override the JCVI decision. The JCVI explicitly shoved the final decision on whether to let 12-15 year olds have access to vaccination straight into the laps of the chief medical officers, because the JCVI said that it only considered the physical risks and benefits of the vaccine, not the impact on their physical or mental health of yet another disrupted year of schooling (or limitations on their freedom to travel overseas). Vaccine passports in the UK are unlikely for this age group, but they exist where my children want to travel to so, imvho, not even giving this age group the choice to be vaccinated is more oppressively controlling than making it available for those who actively want it, as it limits their freedom of movement regardless.[/quote]
Agreed. My children will be vaccinated mainly for this reason, to allow freedom of travel as we have family overseas. Public opinion against vaccine passports may be enough to influence government policy here but it clearly has support in other countries around the world.
COVID has limited opportunity so much already, so if we need a jab to enter other countries then so be it.

This is all speculation.

Nothing anyone can do if other countries want vaccinated 12+yrs. You either get the vaccine or don't travel there. It's not discrimination it's current entry requirements. Your choice.

As for domestic passports, if 12+yrs are offered the jab, there might be some events,stadiums, festivals etc where their insurance insist on vaccination proof, or laws, again not discrimination, if you don't want to get vaccinated you don't have to you just might not be able to go to big events for a bit. Again your choice.

Restaurants, cinemas, private businesses can make their own entry requirements. So if say 70% of the population would prefer vaccinated only as a business you would be mad to cater to the smaller 30%. Again not discrimination still a choice it's just entry requirements.

If the majority prefer open venues with vaccine passports that is what will happen. It's a democracy in the end.

If you or your child choose not to vaccinate and vaccine passports become requirements you won't have those choices.

I am not saying whether it's right or wrong it will just be the case.

So if vaccination becomes available for 12-15yr vaccinate or not, complain about vaccination passports or not it's unlikely to change much. I get the impression most people support them.

@Christmasfairy2020

Tbh both my kids have had it. Youngest at 6 was poorly. 11 year old dd was fine nil symptoms. If the risks outweighs benefits I.e blood clots etc then why would I vaccinate if it isn't needed. I am vaccinated

The risks didn't outweigh the benefits. The benefit was 'marginal' but the benefit outweighed the risk.

And literally nothing to do with blood clots...

@frozendaisy

This is all speculation.

Nothing anyone can do if other countries want vaccinated 12+yrs. You either get the vaccine or don't travel there. It's not discrimination it's current entry requirements. Your choice.

As for domestic passports, if 12+yrs are offered the jab, there might be some events,stadiums, festivals etc where their insurance insist on vaccination proof, or laws, again not discrimination, if you don't want to get vaccinated you don't have to you just might not be able to go to big events for a bit. Again your choice.

Restaurants, cinemas, private businesses can make their own entry requirements. So if say 70% of the population would prefer vaccinated only as a business you would be mad to cater to the smaller 30%. Again not discrimination still a choice it's just entry requirements.

If the majority prefer open venues with vaccine passports that is what will happen. It's a democracy in the end.

If you or your child choose not to vaccinate and vaccine passports become requirements you won't have those choices.

I am not saying whether it's right or wrong it will just be the case.

So if vaccination becomes available for 12-15yr vaccinate or not, complain about vaccination passports or not it's unlikely to change much. I get the impression most people support them.

But as things stand, we don't have the choice to opt for vaccination. We have no way of accessing a vaccine for healthy teens in the uk. That's the problem.

@MontagueLeo
And you are telling me that vaccines are producing long lasting immunity!? Have you seen Israel and it’s reports lately!?
You will end up having a booster every 5/6 months at this rate.

@Dauphinois I think it’s quite sad that people feel pressured to vaccinate their child against something that is, most likely, a very mild disease for them, purely right travel. Particularly when the JCVI have found the health benefits to be so marginal against the risks and when a large percentage of children are already immune.

purely to travel *

@Dauphinois

I think the option to vaccinate 12-15yr olds will come shortly.

Our 12 yr old wants to travel with us so for him/us it's an easy choice. If it's an entry requirement to other countries it's an entry requirement. No jab no visit. Can't scream and shout discrimination at the airport they still wouldn't let you on, even if UK passport control are happy to let you through.

@bumbleymummy
I agree - i also think it’s crazy to restrict children from travelling if they haven’t had a jab that doesn’t even stop transmission!

@bumbleymummy I don't disagree with you. But unless I'm prepared to never visit my brother, his wife and my niece in their home country, I can't see a way around it.

Fortunately I'm very pro vax and have no reservations about the jab, so I'm quite comfortable with my children having it, but I can see it'll be an awful dilemma for some who are less keen on the idea of vaccinating kids.

@Dauphinois I think proof of previous infection or a negative test should always be accepted as alternatives. Particularly when we know that the vaccine doesn’t guarantee immunity anyway.

research is showing that natural immunity is broader and longer lasting

My children have all had covid . So they are less likely to catch COVID again than someone who has never had covid but is double jabbed

OP I don't think the above statements are true

[quote SoOvethis]@bumbleymummy
I agree - i also think it’s crazy to restrict children from travelling if they haven’t had a jab that doesn’t even stop transmission![/quote]
But the restrictions are likely to come from entry country not UK. We wanted to go to Germany this summer but couldn't because 12-18yr olds needed to be vaccinated. And we couldn't get a vaccine. It was nothing to do with UK policy.

So we couldn't travel to Germany end of story.

*MontagueLeo And you are telling me that vaccines are producing long lasting immunity!? Have you seen Israel and it’s reports lately!?
You will end up having a booster every 5/6 months at this rate

Israel had the shorter (3 or 4 weeks?) interval between jabs. This appears to result in a less effective response, so I'm not sure whether any findings from Israel would be relevant here.

It all remains to be seen

@orangejumpsuit
Based on what I have heard I believe it is.
Apparently up to 1.4% of people who have had covid before get reinfected. And I am going to guess the majority of those get milder infections (just like what the vaccine does)
Can you tell me the percentage of people who are getting Covid that are double jabbed? I know and know of many many in the past few months. And you know one thing they have in common - none of them they j they have had covid before!

[quote bumbleymummy]@Dauphinois I think proof of previous infection or a negative test should always be accepted as alternatives. Particularly when we know that the vaccine doesn’t guarantee immunity anyway.[/quote]
I agree, it would be great if that were the case, but some countries will only accept vaccination. Very frustrating!

Re natural immunity and vaccine induced immunity it is worth looking at the tables from this preprint study.

Impact of Delta on viral burden and vaccine effectiveness against new SARS-CoV-2 infections in the UK

Koen B. Pouwels, Emma Pritchard, Philippa C. Matthews, Nicole Stoesser, David W. Eyre, Karina-Doris Vihta, Thomas House, Jodie Hay, John I Bell, John N Newton, Jeremy Farrar, Derrick Crook, Duncan Cook, Emma Rourke, Ruth Studley, Tim Peto, Ian Diamond, A. Sarah Walker, the COVID-19 Infection Survey Team

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.18.21262237v1.full.pdf+html

DH was given priority for the vaccine, and so was DS (aged17).
DD (aged13) has the same condition as them but has not been offered the vaccine.
If she gets covid it's likely she will be affected worse than others her age, just as DH and DS would have done.
Her 'healthy' best friend suffered really badly with it (couldn't sleep for breathing difficulties and chest pain, absolute exhaustion for 2 weeks). I don't want DD to suffer like that let alone worse.
I respect decisions of other parents, but think DD should be granted vaccine if she wanted it, especially as it was seen as necessary for DH and DS. I agree it shouldn't be held against children as reason not to travel.
It's common in Italy and US for this age group to have been vaccinated.

I think having vaccination as an option for 12-15 year olds is good. I would say that it would be good for venues to have access to both vulnerable and unvaccinated - eg cinemas/festivals can have certain days/screenings for people who have been double vax (if medically possible) AND negative test. And certain days for people who are non-vaxed (though vaxed people could also attend). They sometimes do similar special screenings for families with toddlers.

Understandably you are concerned about vaccine passports. But others are concerned about catching covid - which may have a greater impact on their health.