Will heating be allowed in schools this year.

[Kales29]

Do you think? Obviously I can find this out once they go back in a few days.

But last year my kids schools and other schools didn't have the heating on and windows/doors open for ventilation. Which I totally get there's a reason for!

Poor Dd really suffered. She feels the cold. She has joint issues and the cold doesn't help. This is specified in her EHCP which she has for other reasons too.

Despite this they sat her right by the door/window (literally right by it, couldn't get any closer to the cold!). She would wear 3 layers, tights etc but she'd still be cold and stiff after school. I had to suggest her being moved but I felt guilty as another child would have to swap with her and they would then feel the cold then!

It was so hard!

Hopefully it won't be too cold for a couple months at least!

Still very warm where I live atm.

There you go again, petey, suggesting that if a poster actually cared, they’d find the time to do something (what?) about it.

The point I'm making is this wasn't a 'thing' before Covid. This is yet again another way of cost cutting exercises under the guise of 'covid rules'. I don't accept it. The staff do have the means to turn it on. All of them.

Before covid, no one would have suggested, let alone made me, teach in a room in December with all the windows and doors open. The radiators in my y12 room are under the windows so I was quite literally heating the sky.
The thermostatic radiator valves are locked in the full on position. I can't change that, short of the judicious application of lump hammer, and I'm not allowed to lump hammer things.
The heating for the whole school is controlled in the boiler room. There are two options: on, or off. I'm not allowed in the boiler room.
Yes, cost is an issue. But covid isn't the handy excuse heads are using to save money. It's made a dreadful financial position for many schools even worse.

@noblegiraffe - I remember seeing some data you had on the amount of money that needed to be spent (capital spend) to bring school buildings up to a vaguely decent standard - ie including insulation, proper heating systems with thermostats etc - based on pre-existing issues before Covid.

Can you remember what it was? it certainly wasn't an amount that can be found EXCEPT from central Government ivestment.

£11.4 billion, cant and that’s the government’s own estimate schoolsweek.co.uk/repairing-englands-schools-will-cost-11-4-billion-dfe-admits/

The staff do have the means to turn it on. All of them.

I am afraid not. The heating for the whole school is centrally controlled. I do not have a thermostat in my room, nor any control over the heating equipment within my room.

At a central level, the caretaker either turns on the heating, or turns it off. This is - due to the age and nature of the system - not something that is undertaken lightly, so it generally runs at specific times between specific dates.

As we have to keep the windows and doors open as our only Covid mitigation (primary - no masks, no distancing, no vaccines) the same amount of heating doesn't heat the rooms up as much ... and any increase in hours or dates when the heating runs means that cuts MUST be made elsewhere, as schools are not allowed to run deficit budgets. We did, in fact, run heating for longer last year. That is one reason why, despite 7 staff leaving, we have only recruited 1, and the rest are covered by existing staff spread more thinly, and cheaper unqualified staff 'acting up' to cover jobs previously done by qualified teachers / TAs.

All the schools I know had the heating on. Windows and doors open, and I'd let the children take turns in sitting near the radiator/fan heater, and made them move around frequently.
It was cold but not unbearable if you were appropriately dressed.

From Noble's link:

"Secondary schools have an “average condition need” of £1.6 million, while all-through and 16-plus settings have a need of around £1.3 million. This compares to around £300,000 for the average primary school and pupil referral unit, and around £500,000 for the average special school.

Electrical services represent the greatest condition need, with an estimated cost of £2.5 billion for things like mains switch panels, lighting and IT infrastructure.

Mechanical services, including boilers, pipework and air conditioning is second, at around £2 billion, while fixing external walls, windows and doors will cost around £1.75 billion. Repairs to roofs will cost around £1.5 billion, as will improving site and external areas."

That means that 'things that affect the temperature of the room', based on surveys done between 2017 and 2019 - pre-Covid require £2 billion directly, plus £3.25 billion on other factors that indirectly affect temperature - windows, walls, doors and roofs.

This definitely isn't 'teachers should just turn on the heating in their rooms' territory...nor 'Covid being used as an excuse'.

@DelphiniumBlue

All the schools I know had the heating on. Windows and doors open, and I'd let the children take turns in sitting near the radiator/fan heater, and made them move around frequently. It was cold but not unbearable if you were appropriately dressed.

Exactly. I wonder whether the OP's school had the heating off, or had it on but not very effectively.

Surely if they have the windows open for ventilation the heating needs to be turned up higher to maintain an acceptable temperature, not switched off?!

In offices there is a minimum legal temperature (which is set too low as based on male-only data) but at least that is in law. Do schools not have the same? If not, parents must petition for this. Why should children have fewer rights than adults, in an environment they cannot resign from? That is appalling.

Children have a larger "surface area" (skin dimensions) to volume ratio therefore lose heat faster therefore need warmer conditions than an average adult to function properly. Not heating schools properly is unacceptable. Money has been thrown at all kinds of absurd things so the money to heat schools to a normal temperature even with windows open will have to be found as nobody can concentrate or learn when they are cold.

Staff turn the heating on? I worked in a LA where it was on from October to May, even through heatwaves. Even the caretaker had no control. This was 20 years ago, so maybe they've become more environmentally aware, now.

@PickAChew

Staff turn the heating on? I worked in a LA where it was on from October to May, even through heatwaves. Even the caretaker had no control. This was 20 years ago, so maybe they've become more environmentally aware, now.

This never actually happened. It was a thing caretakers told you because controlling the big old boilers wasn't a matter of flicking a switch.

Why on earth would you feel guilty about asking for her to be seated farther from the window, when you know from your other child that there are some kids who persist in wearing shorts and no coat in the depths of winter?

Anyway, my tips are:

leggings of same colour as the tights, underneath skirt

Leg warmers, knit them yourself if you can't find the right colour

Long-sleeve thermal merino wool blend top, directly next to your DDs skin to avoid sweating problems, underneath her uniform. If it is cold she won't be taking off her school sweater so no one will notice. You can buy Used off eBay. They are incredibly warm.

Fingerless gloves and warm hat with ear flaps.

Last year my DD's school were happy for them to wear gloves, hats and coats in class. Typically with her ski-wear merino layer on, dd would take her warm coat off and lay it over her lap. She stayed warm enough.

I don't accept it. The staff do have the means to turn it on. All of them.

You appear not to be understanding what people on this thread are saying, how strange.

No, I am not able to control the radiators in my classroom-that is a fact.

07:04Howshouldibehave

I don't accept it. The staff do have the means to turn it on. All of them.

You appear not to be understanding what people on this thread are saying, how strange.

No, I am not able to control the radiators in my classroom-that is a fact.

I'm not the only one saying this though am I.

It doesn't matter how many people say that I can turn the heating on and off in my room. Saying it does not make it so.

Money has been thrown at all kinds of absurd things so the money to heat schools to a normal temperature even with windows open will have to be found as nobody can concentrate or learn when they are cold.

If the Government gives us the EXTRA money to run the heating for longer and at a higher temperature, and IF the heating is capable of doing this (powerful enough and with individual thermostats so rooms without windows don’t become Sahara-like), then schools would be delighted to do so.

Currently, schools are juggling a money / infection / ventilation / temperature set of plates that cannot all be kept unsmashed with current budgets and the physical state of schools.

Well we're getting another budget cut. Just seen pointed out on twitter

"Of course the "levy" is also a 1.25% employment tax on all public sector institutions. So essentially an unbudgeted cut to schools of 1% (given around 80% of costs are staffing)."

Awesome.

So, what are the facts in this situation:
1 everybody wants the children back in school (well, maybe not everyone)

1. We live in the good ol' UK where temperatures fluctuate on a day-to-day basis, never mind season to season

3 Caretakers et al do not have crystal balls so the best predictor for heating on any one day is the forecast the day before. 4 a school with over 1000students has goodness how many classrooms to heat with only one boiler (usually), so classrooms further away from the boiler take ages to heat up, especially if as (5) below 5 Students in a south/west facing classroom will get hotter than those on the other side of the building and will open windows. Will they close them as they go to their next lesson? Um...no 6 Schools have a finite budget and so can't afford to waste energy

1. In order for (unvaccinated0 children to return to school and not have to wear masks the government is recommending windows are opened to reduce viral load.

Simples!

I've just read a post earlier which refers to the clothing students wear.
I agree, uniform standards are really poor. Most uniform items are made from polyester/nylon which do not insulate. Shirts and blouses polycotton, sweatshirts same or maybe pure cotton (more pricey) skirts and trousers polyester. Jumpers and cardigans polyester. Blazers polyester. Students who wear padded jackets are effectively wrapped in a duvet. But, and I know this from experience most secondary students don't wear anything under their blouse or shirt - so all their body heat is escaping. No wonder they are cold. There's a reason why walkers etc wear base layers TO KEEP THEM WARM.

Plenty if places managed heating on and windows open.
I was in a room with intermittent heating issues and inspite of windows fully open, the heating when it came in made a huge difference.

We are in a crisis pandemic we need to prioritise that over the environment temporarily...

PS when discussing heating with our heating team they said close the windows and I simply pushed back with the above

In offices there is a minimum legal temperature

No there isn’t. There’s recommendations of 16 degrees but it’s not law.

Payproblems

Thank you. For being sensible and honest. A post that actually makes sense to me.

Our school had the grating on and windows open. It was quite cold. I wore a goose down gilet all winter. Could you buy one in school colours and she could wear that indoors? I also layered up and wore thermals

We had heating on last year.
But we did also have windows open for ventilation.
We are supposed to have ventilation this year too.