BMJ: Teachers not at greater risk of hosp'n, and lower risk of severe disease, than general population

[Kokeshi123]

www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2060?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage

Unlike previous studies, this one actually looked at periods when schools were open and compared like-with-like for those periods.

Compared with adults of working age who are otherwise similar, teachers and their household members were not found to be at increased risk of hospital admission with covid-19 and were found to be at lower risk of severe covid-19. These findings should reassure those who are engaged in face-to-face teaching.

This should not be taken to mean that we should do schooling with no mitigations whatsoever--I'd be in favor of doing indoor masks for kids and teachers till the winter is over if it was up to me, and ventilation is always a good thing anyway. However, at least this should provide some reassurance for teachers and families. And in my opinion, this kind of thing should settle the argument on having any further school closures; mitigations are one thing, but schools absolutely must remain open IMO.

@noblegiraffe

That’s not an answer to my question is it, Achilles? You were the one who brought up my threads as if they were a bad thing so I’d like to know why.

Well the government’s long term plans is to no longer test the general population but only test for Covid in medical settings like they do for flu. Case numbers don’t matter. When you no longer have ONS data for infections by age group, you won’t be able to start any more of these threads which cause a lot of anxiety for some parents who found home schooling extremely hard or are overly worried about their child contracting Covid.

Maybe you could contribute to some of the threads on the long term harm to children caused by lockdown and declining levels of social mobility that will be felt for many years to come.

I find it really dd that ANYONE thinks teachers want lockdowns.

Teachers universally hated lockdowns, IME.

We want in-school mitigations that keep ALL children and ALL teachers in school (no part time, no rotas, no in-out-in-out isolation due to in-school infections, no sickness absence) BY KEEPING COVID TRANSMISSION AS LOW AS POSSIBLE.

We are pointing out that, no, schools are not magically Covid-free, that infections will occur and that children and staff will be ill and therefore absent.

Very largely, we accept the personal risk. We would like the government and others to be honest about the fact the risk is there, but it is the dishonesty and gaslighting that we object to - the risk itself has not put us off doing our jobs, though it has increased our stress levels as we worry about the impact on children and adults in the school community.

I know a bank clerk and a plasterer who've died. That doesn't mean their jobs are particularly high risk, it means those are the kind of people I know.

I can't recall noble having any posts removed. But let's not get the truth in the way of a good goad, eh?

I think some of her threads went but that was because of the anti teacher abuse added by the usual suspects. They were practically rabid.

Very odd.

Maybe you could contribute to some of the threads on the long term harm to children caused by lockdown and declining levels of social mobility that will be felt for many years to come.

She has. Have you?

@ChloeDecker

Maybe you could contribute to some of the threads on the long term harm to children caused by lockdown and declining levels of social mobility that will be felt for many years to come.

She has. Have you?

I have, thank you. I can discuss social mobility and meritocracy with you all evening if you like. All @noblegiraffe’s threads are about ONS data on numbers going up in school age children. She may mean well, but these threads cause anxiety to lots parents. And I said we won’t know what the case numbers are soon so they’re longer be needed.

*they’ll no longer

@cantkeepawayforever

I find it really dd that ANYONE thinks teachers want lockdowns.

Teachers universally hated lockdowns, IME.

We want in-school mitigations that keep ALL children and ALL teachers in school (no part time, no rotas, no in-out-in-out isolation due to in-school infections, no sickness absence) BY KEEPING COVID TRANSMISSION AS LOW AS POSSIBLE.

We are pointing out that, no, schools are not magically Covid-free, that infections will occur and that children and staff will be ill and therefore absent.

Very largely, we accept the personal risk. We would like the government and others to be honest about the fact the risk is there, but it is the dishonesty and gaslighting that we object to - the risk itself has not put us off doing our jobs, though it has increased our stress levels as we worry about the impact on children and adults in the school community.

Spot on!

@AchillesLastStand

There's no point lying to parents about schools. I remember last year a year 1 parent saying to me she was worried that we didn't seem to be socially distancing. I explained that there was no social distancing.

you won’t be able to start any more of these threads which cause a lot of anxiety for some parents who found home schooling extremely hard or are overly worried about their child contracting Covid.

So you think I was wrong to start my threads before Christmas warning of the shitshow in schools because you think that ignorance is bliss? Ok, but ignorance isn’t my thing, I am a teacher after all. I had to homeschool and work at the same time btw, it was shit. I really didn’t want schools to close, so saw raising awareness as a good thing.

Maybe you could contribute to some of the threads on the long term harm to children caused by lockdown and declining levels of social mobility

Like this one? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4299984-Childrens-mental-health-services-have-collapsed

Or this one? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4260657-This-government-still-doesnt-give-a-shit-about-schools-or-your-kids

Or this one? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4311626-Gav-scraps-level-3-BTECs-in-an-act-of-educational-vandalism

No wait, I started those…

@SD1978

It's nice to see a balanced article and not the heresay teachers are dropping dead everywhere rhetoric that was around last year. Yes, there's a risk to teachers- no denying that, but it's no higher than any other sector and given their close proximity to many different people (kids) that's hopefully quite reassuring for them.

Yep. Those pesky buses that they were thrown under every other week. For the person that posted it didn't happen, you must have eyes shut, the whinging was everywhere

[quote sherrystrull]@AchillesLastStand

There's no point lying to parents about schools. I remember last year a year 1 parent saying to me she was worried that we didn't seem to be socially distancing. I explained that there was no social distancing.[/quote]
I’m not saying we should be lying to be parents. You obviously can’t socially distance in schools. Bubbles may work in primary school but they don’t in secondary schools, and you can’t expect Year 1 children to social distance, it’s cruel and would impact their mental well-being. I think the majority of parents are more worried about the education their child has missed than Covid.

@noblegiraffe

you won’t be able to start any more of these threads which cause a lot of anxiety for some parents who found home schooling extremely hard or are overly worried about their child contracting Covid.

So you think I was wrong to start my threads before Christmas warning of the shitshow in schools because you think that ignorance is bliss? Ok, but ignorance isn’t my thing, I am a teacher after all. I had to homeschool and work at the same time btw, it was shit. I really didn’t want schools to close, so saw raising awareness as a good thing.

Maybe you could contribute to some of the threads on the long term harm to children caused by lockdown and declining levels of social mobility

Like this one? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4299984-Childrens-mental-health-services-have-collapsed

Or this one? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4260657-This-government-still-doesnt-give-a-shit-about-schools-or-your-kids

Or this one? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4311626-Gav-scraps-level-3-BTECs-in-an-act-of-educational-vandalism

No wait, I started those…

That’s great @noblegiraffe. More of that kind of thing would be helpful rather than just data that causes anxiety. I think we don’t yet comprehend the negative impact of Covid lockdowns on children.

If the government plans to close schools again this winter my son will be going in 5 days a week as key worker child. I won’t feel any guilt him in. I have to prioritise his needs now.

I think we don’t yet comprehend the negative impact of Covid lockdowns on children.

You know who does comprehend the negative impact of Covid lockdowns on children, and children off with Covid? School staff inc teachers.

If the government plans to close schools again this winter my son will be going in 5 days a week as key worker child. I won’t feel any guilt him in. I have to prioritise his needs now.
Quite right. You could have been doing that since June 2020. I understand why you didn’t but the fact that you chose not to, is not school staff’s fault.

That's of there will be enough teachers to teach him m.

^"I understand why you didn’t"
Parents who were working from home were expected to keep their children off school during the first lockdown.

If the government plans to close schools again this winter my son will be going in 5 days a week as key worker child. I won’t feel any guilt him in. I have to prioritise his needs now

Not if there are too many teachers ill with COVID. Last term we had ( I work for a local authority) more schools fully closed through staff illness than at anytime during the pandemic. There was also no supply cover available.

Mitigation would be a step towards stopping this happening again in the Autumn

As a teacher I am now in the unique position of working with the unvaccinated population

Not RTFT, but how is this a 'unique position''? What about those who work with children in another capacity eg, nurses/ social workers etc. And what about those of us working in the vaccine centres - we've been working solely with the unvaccinated population for a long time now, and are continuing to do so.

These threads should not be about my risk is greater than yours because you are a teacher. Teaching staff just want schools safer for everyone staff, pupils and the wider community. Or they will close. I no we don't want that.

My youngest child’s school closed for a whole week due to lack of staff and no budget for the amount of supply staff they would have needed. That meant that my DH and myself both had to take unpaid time off work - and we are both classes as “keyworker.” My oldest child’s year group closed for more than a week due to lack of staff last year, again meaning time off work.

The NHS are really going to struggle, I fear this winter. As NHS staff ( unlike school staff) have to isolate for 10 days if a member of their household has covid. Plus they will have to take time off when their children’s schools/classes close due to no teachers.

My son’s school has had zero Covid cases. No children or staff caught it. I couldn’t send him as keyworker during the first lockdown in March 2020 as university lecturers weren’t classified as key workers, although the government expected us to continue teaching online.

The winter lockdown he went in 3 days a week which was an enormous help. But I remember the really nasty threads on here about the number of keyworker children in school, especially about SAHM’s with mental health problems. It was a very unpleasant place to be, people judging each other.

My DS has just started a new school as we’re moving house next week. His village school is very small and there’s only 16 in his class. He’ll be going in 5 days a week as long as the school is open. Only one primary school here had to close because of staff shortages.

That’s great @noblegiraffe. More of that kind of thing would be helpful rather than just data that causes anxiety.

as if I give a shiny shit about which of my threads you approve of or not. I just thought it was funny that you decided to patronise me with suggestions that I post about social mobility without checking out my (notorious) posting history. So sure you were….

And if you think people didn’t find my covid threads helpful, you’re wrong about that too.

"And what about those of us working in the vaccine centres - we've been working solely with the unvaccinated population for a long time now, and are continuing to do so."
Absolutely, and the country is indebted to those people, but I will point out that every person I saw in the vaccination centre was virtually wrapped in clingfilm and they were fiercely sticking to distancing protocols. That has not been the case in schools.

What about those who work with children in another capacity eg, nurses/ social workers etc.

Social workers have been working from home and in my area, mostly still are.

@AchillesLastStand

My son’s school has had zero Covid cases. No children or staff caught it. I couldn’t send him as keyworker during the first lockdown in March 2020 as university lecturers weren’t classified as key workers, although the government expected us to continue teaching online.

The winter lockdown he went in 3 days a week which was an enormous help. But I remember the really nasty threads on here about the number of keyworker children in school, especially about SAHM’s with mental health problems. It was a very unpleasant place to be, people judging each other.

My DS has just started a new school as we’re moving house next week. His village school is very small and there’s only 16 in his class. He’ll be going in 5 days a week as long as the school is open. Only one primary school here had to close because of staff shortages.

You've been working solely from home until this week?