No vaccines for healthy 12-15 Yr olds

[Wellbythebloodyhell]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-will-not-be-recommended-for-healthy-children-aged-12-to-15-government-advisers-say-12398444

Is anyone else glad this potential decision has been taken away? I was very much undecided about vaccinating my older dc and now feel a bit of a weight has been lifted now its not something I need to consider.

@mrshoho

I can only think those against it are looking across to France and thinking there will come a time here where vaccinated and unvaccinated children are treated differently.

Admittedly this was a huge concern of mine that I could be socially forced into vaccinating dc to avoid them being segregated

@noblegiraffe

If they do, will they do it in schools, like the flu?

Yes, the plans have been drawn up, the govt was just waiting (increasingly impatiently) for the JCVI to report to kick it all off.

There wasn’t really much point in them waiting if they were just going to go ahead with it regardless

@bumbleymummy - but they are not going ahead regardless. They have listened to the experts at the MHRA, they have listened to the experts at the JCVI, now they are listening to the chief medical officers, who are also experts. No doubt they also consider WHO advice and look at decisions being made in other countries, as citizens of the UK are affected by attitudes in countries they may travel to, study, or work in. At the end of the day, it is always a political decision, because the experts do not hold the purse strings.

There wasn’t really much point in them waiting if they were just going to go ahead with it regardless

This has been my main thought this morning.

I always expected them to eventually vaccinate children, but I thought it would be in a few months time when they start getting spooked by case numbers and schools having to shut.

I never thought they would just outright ignore the advice less than 24 hours later.

Makes you wonder why they aren’t giving boosters right now as well, instead of delaying for JCVIs decision.

If they ultimately will listen to Witty et al, then why not just consult them straight away.

They thought the JCVI would say yes.

I never thought they would just outright ignore the advice less than 24 hours later.

The JCVI report specifically gives them the route by which to do this. It says that they can’t comment on other benefits such as less disruption to education and that the govt should meet with the CMOs to discuss this further.

I still don’t understand what the problem is. Is anyone going to be forced to have a vaccine against their wishes?

Am I missing something? Genuine question. Not being a GF

I don’t have a problem… never said I did. I don’t have kids aged 12-15. There just seems to be a lot of people saying things like ‘why would those who don’t want their kids to have it stop others from having the choice?’. I was just pointing out that they’re not stopping anyone doing anything, they’re just expressing an opinion. They don’t make the decision, the experts are. Yes

Sorry, not sure where the ‘yes’ came from at the end.

If the vaccine is safer for girls than boys, why not at least roll it out to girls? I'm sure HPV vac when it started was just for girls, although boys get it now too.
All girls vaccinated would still massively reduce the rate of infection amongst young people.

You are spectacularly missing my point bumbley

The government is really gunning for vaccinating teenage kids. It’s terrifying.
I am fully jabbed and not an anti vaxxer, but to consider vaccinating teenage kids when they are still growing and no one knows the long term effects from the vaccine is terrifying. For healthy kids, catching Covid barely registers with them. They have virtually no symptoms and recover very quickly. To do so to benefit the older population is not on. Vaccinating the teenage population is also not going to solve the rate of infection of the whole population. I can guarantee it will virtually make minimal difference.

And the chances of heart problems in the future from getting myocarditis from the Pfizer vaccine is too scary to think of.

To put parents in this position is just not on. If the government decides to push ahead with the vaccine. Yes you can say yes or no. But to be put in the position to have to consider it is, is not right. As for allowing teenagers the right to have their say, at 12,13 they are definitely not capable of making that decision on their own.

JCVI think the benefits of the vaccine don’t outweigh the risks in children, yet so many parents would rather risk their children having clots, heart damage and death to make sure their education doesn’t suffer. I can’t get my head around this. If it comes down to that “choice” I choose my child’s health every time!

JCVI think the benefits of the vaccine don’t outweigh the risks in children

That's not what they said. Why are you misrepresenting what they said?

There just seems to be a lot of people saying things like ‘why would those who don’t want their kids to have it stop others from having the choice?’. I was just pointing out that they’re not stopping anyone doing anything, they’re just expressing an opinion. They don’t make the decision, the experts are. Yes

There are people on here seemingly pleased that a decision has been made meaning ‘other people’ won’t be able to get their child vaccinated. That’s the strange thing.

The papers today are looking overwhelmingly in favour of offering the vaccination to 12-15, as approved by the MHRA, so I am quietly cautious.

Anyone who wasn’t giving it to their child anyway, will remain unaffected but I for one will be pleased to have the option.

What happened to those 15 Long Covid Paediatric Clinics opening around the country that Matt Hancock announced in the summer?

If we're having to open clinics to deal with a health issue caused by children catching covid, why didn't the JCVI consider it in their report?

There are people on here seemingly pleased that a decision has been made meaning ‘other people’ won’t be able to get their child vaccinated. That’s the strange thing

I guess they’re looking to France where unvaccinated over 12’s are being excluded from normal everyday activities due to their vaccine status and wondering if the same will happen here. I don’t know 🤷🏻‍♀️.

@noblegiraffe

I never thought they would just outright ignore the advice less than 24 hours later.

The JCVI report specifically gives them the route by which to do this. It says that they can’t comment on other benefits such as less disruption to education and that the govt should meet with the CMOs to discuss this further.

This is very interesting.

Thank you.

JCVI think the benefits of the vaccine don’t outweigh the risks in children

Funny, you're the third or fourth person on the thread who's blatantly got that sentence the wrong way round?

France is a very different country though and you can't extrapolate. I don't know if it's still true but when my sister lived in France with young children you couldn't go to nursery or later school unless you had had, and had proof of having had, all of your vaccines.

That's not the case here. France already had a situation where public health trumped individual rights and their population had already accepted the idea of vaccination status being a condition of accessing education.

So 'it's happening in France' doesn't mean it would happen here, it's happening in France because it is entirely consistent with their pre-existing rules and it being culturally normal to refuse access to services to people who refuse to vaccinate.

@TheHoneyBadger

France is a very different country though and you can't extrapolate. I don't know if it's still true but when my sister lived in France with young children you couldn't go to nursery or later school unless you had had, and had proof of having had, all of your vaccines.

That's not the case here. France already had a situation where public health trumped individual rights and their population had already accepted the idea of vaccination status being a condition of accessing education.

So 'it's happening in France' doesn't mean it would happen here, it's happening in France because it is entirely consistent with their pre-existing rules and it being culturally normal to refuse access to services to people who refuse to vaccinate.

I didn’t say it would happen, I was just speculating as to why people might be happy that it’s not approved here (yet). As I said, I have no skin in the game. I don’t have children that age.

I think to be fair the JCVI are saying the known risk of covid is higher than the known risks of vaccines but not by much and the unknown risks make that small margin of difference even less persuasive or conclusive. I think they're saying the known medical evidence either way is not conclusive enough to be make this decision on a medical basis however others may be willing to make this decision based on social factors.

I think the unknowns about both vaccine and covid are too big a factor in the context of the known benefit to vaccine being very small.

I don’t understand why some people are so upset about a voluntary vaccine. Let those who want it have it and those who don’t want it can choose not to have it

The feeling of urgency has been compounded by the fact we just had the summer holidays which would have been a great opportunity to get kids jabbed and secondly, kids that age have been jabbed in Israel, US and EU. There must be a lot of data. Why did those countries come to a different conclusion? Considering that the UK changed their AZ use to align with other countries (the over 40s only thing), it seems strange that we are the only ones saying no to over 12s. If it's a question of stock then I would be happy with an announcement of a future date when it may happen (even if it's 2022)
Also we realistically know how overcrowded schools are and the inevitability of catching it. If your child hasn't had it then you'd rather lower their chances of serious illness and many teens would rather reduce the odds of passing it on to others. (I know that transmission isn't zero but lower is better) I live in an area that was hit hard by Alpha (lots of whole school closures here in December) and we know that Delta is more transmissible.
Finally 12-15 year olds often have their opinion on the vaccine. I know some (admittedly at the older end) who are very keen to have it done.

it being culturally normal to refuse access to services to people who refuse to vaccinate.

It hasn’t been culturally normal to exclude children from shops, restaurants, cinemas etc though.

Considering that the UK changed their AZ use to align with other countries (the over 40s only thing), it seems strange that we are the only ones saying no to over 12s.

Perhaps their previous mistake on AZ has made them even more cautious, particularly irt children? I’m not sure there would be much point in vaccinating children in 2022. Quite a significant percentage of young people are already immune so after another winter it would probably make even less sense from a risk- benefit perspective.

Listen to the Deputy Chairman of the JVCI here.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58445499

It is not clear cut at all and he seems to imply it will potentially be available but a choice for parents on a case by case basis, rather than the JVCI’s mass recommendation.