Australia/New Zealand New Thread

[Kokeshi123]

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/pandemic-australia-still-liberal-democracy/619940/

Intrastate travel within Australia is also severely restricted. And the government of South Australia, one of the country’s six states, developed and is now testing an app as Orwellian as any in the free world to enforce its quarantine rules. People in South Australia will be forced to download an app that combines facial recognition and geolocation. The state will text them at random times, and thereafter they will have 15 minutes to take a picture of their face in the location where they are supposed to be. Should they fail, the local police department will be sent to follow up in person. “We don’t tell them how often or when, on a random basis they have to reply within 15 minutes,” Premier Steven Marshall explained. “I think every South Australian should feel pretty proud that we are the national pilot for the home-based quarantine app.”

This is... really really disturbing, honestly.

I grew up admiring (and, let's be honest, envying) Australians because as a nation, they always came across as a down-to-earth, fearless lot who had a healthy skepticism of authority while also being basically very civic/community minded.

What's gone wrong?

Agree with all of that. I also think that what the qld CHO has said really applies to all. She said everyone in her state will get it, hence the focus on vaccination. I absolutely think that given our numbers it's time to start letting citizens and residents home (vaxd and tested). The whole risk profile has changed.

Because most regional areas have been able to have a normal life with a few short lockdowns, the taking of the vaccine has been slow.

There have been major supply issues for many months outside of Sydney since the start of the vaccine rollout, and even in areas deemed part of Greater Sydney, which have only been rectified in recent weeks and months.

@milkyaqua

Because most regional areas have been able to have a normal life with a few short lockdowns, the taking of the vaccine has been slow.

There have been major supply issues for many months outside of Sydney since the start of the vaccine rollout, and even in areas deemed part of Greater Sydney, which have only been rectified in recent weeks and months.

I understand and agree mostly, there were many supply issues full stop. The Feds rolled out has been a complete shambles, most GP practices in Greater Sydney had a kilometer long queue for an appointment because there were no vaccines.

My "mostly agree" is because if people don't need to get the jab because their life has remained the same, they are not likely to get it. Same thinking is everywhere in the world.

I think now that regions are getting the virus and travelling from Greater Sydney is in the short horizon, the complacency for many is finally gone.

@Gennz18

What baffles me is that the rest of NZ seems to think Delta can be “contained” in Auckland. I mean sure, that hasn’t worked anywhere else in the world but we’ll be the exception …

I am in Hawke's Bay and do not know anyone who thinks it can/will be contained in Auckland. We could have all been vaccinated by now if there had been any sort of a viable Covid plan, rather than closing down the border for year or more.

I have had four attempts to get a quarantine space under the new 'system' to enable me to travel to UK and see my Mum and have failed miserably - last week I was number 16722 in a queue for 3800 rooms over a four month period.

@PicsInRed

Is there anything worse than being in a city or state that has lost the plot re Covid and has no plan to rejoin the rest of the world?

I don't know about worse, but all the Kiwis living outside NZ who are effectively barred from returning home to visit our families (and having these visits derided as "summer holidays" or "Christmas holidays", as if it's somehow sinful and wrong to visit family during NZ summer and to go home for Christmas ). Well, that's been pretty heartbreaking for 1 million Kiwis outside NZ, as well as their families inside NZ.

And I don't use the word "hearbreaking" lightly.

Add to that all the people in NZ who want to travel to see family overseas but are unable to as they cannot get back into NZ.

My Mum is 91 and I have not seen her for two years and you are right it is heart-breaking.

NSW seems all systems go now. My Aussie colleague (in London) very excited to book a visit home as soon as she can. Victoria will presumably follow and the other states will do the same or get left behind pretty quickly ( as will NZ).
Beware the NSW boomtime comments by the NSW premier though. We in U.K. thought that too but actually so many countries are booming at exactly the same time there is massive demand for Labour, haulage, containers, freight, energy etc constraining predicted Boom.
Home quarantine for double jabbed also great step forward and what most of the rest of the world has been doing for months.
I am delighted for my Aussie colleague. It’s definitely put a spring in her step

Home quarantine for double jabbed also great step forward and what most of the rest of the world has been doing for months.

Both hotel and home quarantine for double jabbed international travellers is being scrapped. He's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

New Zealand has administered at least 6,113,819 doses of COVID vaccines so far. Assuming every person needs 2 doses, that’s enough to have vaccinated about 62.2% of the country’s population.

graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/new-zealand/

67.5% in the UK.

U.K. has 85.7% 1st dose and 78.7% 2nd dose in over 12’s so obviously lower if you extrapolate out to whole population. We’ll get a little higher as lots of kids about to be jabbed over the next couple of weeks but we’ve definitely reached a plateau now in adults. Everyone that wants a vaccine has had one.
We do have high levels of natural immunity too though. Probably 30% plus in some areas like London which is just as well as London also has the lowest vaccination rates too. My own London borough is about 50% vaccination total population which is pretty poor but then everyone I know has had Covid too which helps…
Conversely many parts of U.K. have almost 100% vaccination rates too. Certainly where my in laws live as an older population and so more motivated. They’re all lining up for their boosters as we speak!

Our booster clinic is rammed - barely a no-show and lots of walk-ins. Unlike a few weeks ago when there was a no-show rate of up to 30% at times.

Unfortunately, as it's older people, the whole process takes longer, queues get long and patience gets short in some cases!

@FiveShelties @PicsInRed I’m so sorry, it is heartbreaking. We have family in London - if we make it over next year it will be 2.5 years since we’ve last seen them. I feel for MIL as usually she would see her UK grandchildren at least once a year - she’s mid 70s so her travelling days are probably numbered.

I think MIQ will be drastically altered altered very soon. Once Covid cases in the community can isolate at home you can’t justify quarantining double vaxxed Covid-free cases for 14 days. There will be a judicial review of the current MIQ system by Grounded Kiwis before Christmas I think - I would expect that the infringement on the right to freedom of movement can no longer be justified under the Bill of Rights.

I’m very excited that NSW has opened up quarantine overseas travel. Of course the usual purveyors of fear and panic are saying it’s too risky and some are even trotting out the ‘what about variants’ line. Bad luck. It’s time to open up.

I had an interesting conversation over coffee with workmates in Adelaide yesterday. They are all highly educated, intelligent people but most of them were very hesitant about opening state borders and some of them didn’t want borders to open at all. My boss even said we’d ‘be fucked’ when borders opened but I told him that borders couldn’t stay closed forever so we needed to get past the ‘being fucked’ staged sooner or later and being in limbo, terrified of any cases with the possibility of a snap lockdown hanging over our heads was no way to live. The only other colleague that shared my views has recently moved to Adelaide from Sydney and has all her family interstate so obviously wants borders open ASAP.

@FiveShelties there are still quite a lot with their head in the sand over the outbreak and thinking it will be kept in Auckland.
Friends and family in wellington are pretty blasé about getting their jabs because "it's in Auckland and they have a border". Raglan family "our immunity will take care of it and we're in lockdown so it won't get any further". Auckland family "some of our friends had it in London and it wasn't that bad so we're not worried. We havent got around to the jabs yet. Anyway lockdown should take care of it in the next few weeks."
Only the BOP and Waikato family seem to be taking it seriously (not overboard but pretty realistic about the situation unfolding).
What I find interesting is that in the briefings there is so much focus on linking the clusters and a lack of consistency in saying how many were out and about during their infectious period. This was the absolute give away for NSW on where things were heading even at low numbers. 20 cases, 11 out in the community etc. I think it really helped to break it to everyone that the horse had well and truly bolted. Especially when it got to the point of just saying 200 odd cases, majority have exposure in the community.

I’m very excited that NSW has opened up quarantine-free overseas travel.

Easy to say from Adelaide.

Of course the usual purveyors of fear and panic are saying it’s too risky

You mean the AMA? The already struggling hospitals?

Bad luck. It’s time to open up.

We've had young men in their twenties die in their own homes during this wave, in Sydney, which began with one driver of airline staff. But bad luck for them, for all the people still on ventilators, for the vulnerable aboriginal communities.

It may be time for Adelaide to open up, I don't know, I'm not paying attention to Adelaide, but this is not going to go well for us in NSW.

Anyway, Scotty of all people has put the brakes on him, somewhat. Thank God. He is a lunatic.

@bluetongue

I’m very excited that NSW has opened up quarantine overseas travel. Of course the usual purveyors of fear and panic are saying it’s too risky and some are even trotting out the ‘what about variants’ line. Bad luck. It’s time to open up.

I'm so pleased to hear that you're excited. For us, it's only caused added anxiety. If you've been been living in an area with rising numbers for time, you might understand this. If you live in an area with Covid hotels masquerading as hospitals you'd have some sensitivity, perhaps. Yesterday, I had to go to hospital for a regular procedure - as I came out, part of the pathway was blocked off next to a van. "You can't walk there - we're unloading a Covid patient," we were told. Currently my hospital has 5 in ICU.

We're not even in Sydney! But you go on being excited.

The numbers will rise though? The idea if most people are jabbed is that although the numbers rise (lots after opening up) is that it doesn't cause the numbers of deaths/hospitalisations it would cause without the jabs.

You don't want to be locked down for ever. If you dont open up when most people are jabbed... when will you?

@PinkCricket

The numbers will rise though? The idea if most people are jabbed is that although the numbers rise (lots after opening up) is that it doesn't cause the numbers of deaths/hospitalisations it would cause without the jabs.

You don't want to be locked down for ever. If you dont open up when most people are jabbed... when will you?

I agree that we to open gradually and the risk is lower when most people are vaccinated. The problem is that, in regional areas of NSW, vaccination levels aren't the rates that they are in the Sydney basin just yet. In a few more weeks, they may be. At the moment our vaccination levels are lagging and our cases are rising. That's the reason for the anxiety.

But then, aren't you back to some people's vaccines waning, if you keep waiting and waiting? I've got friends who are HCP in Aus who were jabbed in February. I haven't heard about booster plans yet.

U.K. is currently rolling out boosters to 50plus vulnerable to those 6 months post 2nd jab now. I’ve just had my third dose.
I think people have to accept Covid is here to stay, it will continually circulate, it will never “be over” and the best you can do personally is get jabbed and then live your life.
There’s no end date and no day when everyone can think “thank god that’s over.”
When you accept that ( and Jacinda needs to give this message to the NZ public) it makes it easier ironically as you lose the “just one more push” mentality. It’s frees you to stop worrying or at least worry less. And the more you know people that have caught it, the less you will worry.
Everyone will catch it at some point but the vaccines will hopefully mean you’ll feel ill for a few days but recover.
My husband double jabbed caught it probably down the pub, he had a headache felt unwell but then fine.

Our major city hospitals are at capacity. It's not a case of just 'stop worrying' for them.

I wouldn't be so quick to tell other countries what to do, in your shoes. As per:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/15/why-britons-are-tolerating-sky-high-covid-rates-and-why-this-may-not-last

@Kingstonmumof1

But then, aren't you back to some people's vaccines waning, if you keep waiting and waiting? I've got friends who are HCP in Aus who were jabbed in February. I haven't heard about booster plans yet.

I'm talking about people who haven't had their first or second jab yet, yet alone their booster. For the moment, boosters are fairyland territory for Australians. We aren't thinking that far yet, although perhaps the most vulnerable group in NSW may receive their booster soon. But there still are a large percentage that still haven't yet had a first vaccination - including extremely vulnerable indigenous people in regional NSW.

@sashagabadon

U.K. is currently rolling out boosters to 50plus vulnerable to those 6 months post 2nd jab now. I’ve just had my third dose. I think people have to accept Covid is here to stay, it will continually circulate, it will never “be over” and the best you can do personally is get jabbed and then live your life. There’s no end date and no day when everyone can think “thank god that’s over.” When you accept that ( and Jacinda needs to give this message to the NZ public) it makes it easier ironically as you lose the “just one more push” mentality. It’s frees you to stop worrying or at least worry less. And the more you know people that have caught it, the less you will worry. Everyone will catch it at some point but the vaccines will hopefully mean you’ll feel ill for a few days but recover. My husband double jabbed caught it probably down the pub, he had a headache felt unwell but then fine.

It's a little different with unvaccinated indigenous communities - their health challenges are somewhat dissimilar to a typical Caucasian. They have high levels of respiratory and diabetic illness. Their response to a Covid infection would also be have a different quality.

The guardian consistently gets things wrong though. It mentions “sky high” cases compared to rest of Europe but omits that we are testing a million a day, a lot more than other EU countries. My colleague who is Hungarian says hungry does almost no testing now.
I work in a London hospital. I see the daily ins and outs. Our levels have remained the same for months now. In fact we are back to the same number of Covid patients we had in late July, a quarter of the number in January. No one is particularly worried, it’s very manageable.
Australia will be the same too and the worrying will go away.