Conflicted about vaccinating 17 year old

[Backofbeyond50]

So dd is about to enter year 13 and has been offered vaccine. Part of me thinks she should have it as she is going to University next year and no one really knows how COVID affects individuals who are perceived to be low risk. Than there is Long COVID. DH firmly believes she should have it and more importantly she wants it too.
I will of course facilitate her choice but why do I have a tiny niggling doubt? I know I have been dripped rather alot of poison from an anti vax relative and I know this will ramp up if she discovers she has had vaccine?
So difficult.

[quote KeepYourCustardCreams]@Piggwaspushed, I will not dismiss a logical argument on the basis of an ad hominem attack. On this specific statistical point, I think he is correct.[/quote]
Ignoring all the red flags regarding his views on coronavirus and the vaccines, a) his arguments regarding the statistical methods are not valid and b) there are many other sources of evidence that demonstrate against his arguments

My Ds1 doesn't want reality to. I'm quite gutted. He's not one to believe anti vaxxers nonsense, but he's incredibly fitness obsessed and just says he doesn't want any foreign objects being put into his body.

Saying you disagree with someone or stating that they’re biased isn’t an ad hominem attack, in the context of an argument.
Saying that they can’t be right because they cheated on their wife, are ugly or lied about something completely unrelated would be an ad hominem attack.

My 16 year old has had it. She was slightly off colour the day after, then fine. One of her classmates had his at the same time. It is a more difficult decision with younger people in terms of the benefit vs the risks, I agree, dd had been very worried about catching Covid and possibly passing it on to DH or me and it making one of us very unwell, she was also worried about having long term tiredness etc.

Yuck, and I didn't have to go far down his timeline to find him retweeting holocaust references and yellow stars He's a big fan of Laurence Fox it seems.

mobile.twitter.com/LozzaFox/status/1429830232190685188

^ @KeepYourCustardCreams re: Engler

She's 17y.
It's her choice.

Yes that chap is a technically what is known as a dick. Power games to make themselves important.

Oblomov, quite a few sports stars are a bit anti vaxx so are exercising an influence. I am fit and perfect type.Infallible etc....

The fact that he states vaccination doesn’t prevent cases at all halfway down that thread ought to be a red flag tbh.

He isn’t the only person with issues with that study, but that’s also not the only data we have on myocarditis with the vaccine and with Covid. It’s also worth bearing in mind that the cases seen after vaccination are mild and only last a few days. There has even been some debate about whether it should clinically be called myocarditis. Unlike the problems seen in teens with Covid. Your cardiologist friend is a bit out in his own here, I think.

Basing a decision about whether or not to vaccinate your own child because of cases you've seen recently as a doctor is understandable, but really bad science. It's data that matters, not anecdotes. And I'd still believe that even if the vaccine wasn't authorised for 16/17 year olds.

Yes that chap is a technically what is known as a dick.

[quote KeepYourCustardCreams]@Piggywaspushed, this Twitter thread is worth a read if you're interested in the myocarditis risk stuff in the press. And I think there are recent indications the risk may be higher than thought. Basically, this is an ongoing area of investigation and some feel more cautious than others about it.

mobile.twitter.com/jengleruk/status/1427909929176866816[/quote]
You've gone from "a friend of mine who is a cardiologist happened to mention" to being his mouthpiece within a few posts.
You were slightly (just about) more credible without the anti-vax links.

You aren't vaccinating your 17 year old. Someone else is and it's your child's choice in any case. Personally I would nbe encouraging her to get it done, but it's still her decision to make.

would be

@Backofbeyond50

So dd is about to enter year 13 and has been offered vaccine. Part of me thinks she should have it as she is going to University next year and no one really knows how COVID affects individuals who are perceived to be low risk. Than there is Long COVID. DH firmly believes she should have it and more importantly she wants it too. I will of course facilitate her choice but why do I have a tiny niggling doubt? I know I have been dripped rather alot of poison from an anti vax relative and I know this will ramp up if she discovers she has had vaccine? So difficult.

For OP, I don't think a thread will help reassure you as it just tends to trigger a lot of anti-vax posts and scare stories.

Your anti-vax relatively is literally saying you and your DH will be dead in two years. She is clearly not an unbiased source of info and has gone far down the Mike Yeadon rabbit hole.

And honestly, she sounds like a dick - if I genuinely thought people I cared about had taken something that was going to kill them I'd be doing everything I could to try and help them, not just crowing about it! Her opinion is irrelevant and shouldn't be the reason you're worried.

Your DD has weighed up the benefits for herself and wants to go for it, seeing as this is what is recommended by HCPs, it makes sense for her to go ahead.

I know Piggy
All these sports stars who are Uber fit aren't really helping the cause.

It's actually fascinating how we can't say we need a bit of nuance without being called anti-vax and accused of lying. I am SO far from "antivax", as is the (absolutely real, whatever you may say) cardiologist I'm talking about. I also have zero interest in promoting Jonathan Engler or anyone else as a person or general commentator. This was ONE argument, which happened to be explained well by this particular Twitter thread of his, which I think is sensible. Literally all I'm saying is that it's more complicated than some are saying. And somehow people are talking about Laurence Fox and the holocaust. Blimey. This almost DOES make me have sympathy with the conspiracy theorists who say people are being shut down for having reasonable opinions . I suppose I'd better emphasise now that I said ALMOST, there.

I mean, the JCVI itself clearly thinks it's complicated! This is so weird... Now I really MUST stop posting and go and do some work.

All the best to everyone.

@KeepYourCustardCreams

It's actually fascinating how we can't say we need a bit of nuance without being called anti-vax and accused of lying. I am SO far from "antivax", as is the (absolutely real, whatever you may say) cardiologist I'm talking about. I also have zero interest in promoting Jonathan Engler or anyone else as a person or general commentator. This was ONE argument, which happened to be explained well by this particular Twitter thread of his, which I think is sensible. Literally all I'm saying is that it's more complicated than some are saying. And somehow people are talking about Laurence Fox and the holocaust. Blimey. This almost DOES make me have sympathy with the conspiracy theorists who say people are being shut down for having reasonable opinions . I suppose I'd better emphasise now that I said ALMOST, there.

So I didn't suddenly start talking about the holocaust and yellow stars like a crazy person, I pointed out that Engler retweets these references, including those by Laurence Fox.

No credible scientist or clinician with genuine concerns about the vaccine would be sharing these views - beyond anything else if they were associated with a reputable research institute they'd rightly be pulled up on it.

You say the JCVI think it's complicated, which it certainly is, but they themselves recommend 16-17 year olds are vaccinated.

I have had all my childhood vaccines (and happy about it) so I am not anti-vax. However, I do not like the side effects of the Pfizer and AZ vaccines. I don’t know anyone who’s suffered greatly with Covid (my 80yo grandma was ill for a couple of days and then recovered). I am not high risk of dying with Covid. However, I don’t want the vaccine to potentially fuck up my menstrual cycle (ttc) or worsen my vestibular migraines. I do not take the contraceptive pill as I don’t want to risk having blood clots. I’ve weighed up the pros and cons and decided against having this particular vaccine.

I hate how this instantly makes me “anti vax” and a “granny killer” in the eyes of hysterical people. Unfortunately, people die whether or not they have had this vaccine.

@KeepYourCustardCreams

It's actually fascinating how we can't say we need a bit of nuance without being called anti-vax and accused of lying. I am SO far from "antivax", as is the (absolutely real, whatever you may say) cardiologist I'm talking about. I also have zero interest in promoting Jonathan Engler or anyone else as a person or general commentator. This was ONE argument, which happened to be explained well by this particular Twitter thread of his, which I think is sensible. Literally all I'm saying is that it's more complicated than some are saying. And somehow people are talking about Laurence Fox and the holocaust. Blimey. This almost DOES make me have sympathy with the conspiracy theorists who say people are being shut down for having reasonable opinions . I suppose I'd better emphasise now that I said ALMOST, there.

You are also against vaccination passes aren't you? And derailed a thread with whataboutery regarding fat people not being allowed into nightclubs? Word to the wise- if you want your agenda to be credible, it's probably best not to leave a trace. Namechange is your friend.

@Geamhradh I totally stand by the point about whether we'd stop overweight people going to nightclubs (and I think it's very relevant to vaccine passports). I have no desire to name change on this.

And yes, I am very much against vaccine passports. Not against vaccines - not in the slightest. But like many others, I think vaccine passports are highly morally questionable. God, this is exhausting...

I get it. I was the same with my 16yo. I'm pro the vaccine for adults and i'm not against it for children and young adults in principle but would have liked there to have been enough data for scientific authorities to make proper, non-political decisions on it before sticking it in my baby. It bothers me that we are giving it to children to fill the gap left by anti-vaxxers.

But then i really don't want her to get long covid, and she wanted the vaccine and her dad wanted her to have it. So i was glad that it ultimately wasn't my decision.