Conflicted about vaccinating 17 year old

[Backofbeyond50]

So dd is about to enter year 13 and has been offered vaccine. Part of me thinks she should have it as she is going to University next year and no one really knows how COVID affects individuals who are perceived to be low risk. Than there is Long COVID. DH firmly believes she should have it and more importantly she wants it too.
I will of course facilitate her choice but why do I have a tiny niggling doubt? I know I have been dripped rather alot of poison from an anti vax relative and I know this will ramp up if she discovers she has had vaccine?
So difficult.

The myocarditis risk from covid is higher. I assume your cardiologist knows this.

Myocarditis also isn't a heart attack.

@Piggywaspushed, the analysis that this conclusion is based on is highly flawed, or at least contested, actually.

Suddenly you seem to be taking on the mantle of your cardiologist friend!

But nonetheless , I have not heard of the jab causing heart attacks. Where is that info from?

@Piggywaspushed, this Twitter thread is worth a read if you're interested in the myocarditis risk stuff in the press. And I think there are recent indications the risk may be higher than thought. Basically, this is an ongoing area of investigation and some feel more cautious than others about it.

mobile.twitter.com/jengleruk/status/1427909929176866816

@Piggywaspushed, actually I'm absolutely undecided, myself. I was "pushing" in that direction after being accused of lying, which I am not.

Hmm. Still not a heart attack though. Not nice but v rare. Children with heart conditions should definitely be jabbed.

@Piggywaspushed, anyway, I'm not a medic, I have no axe to grind, and was just reporting on a conversation from a social event at the weekend, with some people know of old and highly respect. The only thing I object to is the false impression of consensus being given by the media (and which people seem to be arguing for here). The total loss of shades of grey. This is a complicated issue when it comes to young people, and I sympathise with those in the position of trying to make the call for/with their children.

OP, glad you have reached a decision. All the very best to you and your DD.

(some people I know of old and highly respect)

Well, I've read somewhere drs are the profession with highest vaccination rate, but there are always some anti-vaxxers among them, since it's not 100%.

My 17 year old will be having it (he's got severe autism and severe learning difficulties so he can't make his own choice) .
I've come to the decision because like every decision in his life I want the best for him x
And if I can reduce the chances of him getting very sick I will x

Did you do any checking on Jonathan Engler BTW?

@Piggywaspushed, briefly, re the last point you made... yes, the myocarditis issue was discussed separately from the heart attack issue (wrt the latter, the cardiologist friend was discussing his own recent clinical experience and his understanding of the yellow card data)

My cardiologist was very clear that I should get vaccinated ASAP (which I did). He was very pleased to have had his, especially after working for so many extra hours looking after people (including young people) with Covid-related heart problems. Though some highly intelligent people can at times hold unreasonable and irresponsible views, I find it very strange that a cardiologist might advise young people against getting vaccinated.

@Piggywaspushed, I don't know much about Jonathan Engler, but I have looked into the arguments he's made statistically on this point, and I agree.

@borntobequiet, I'm assuming that you are not a teenager, and I'm also assuming that (given you have a cardiologist) you have had health issues(?). This means that the risk benefit ratio for you is likely to be very different from that for a typical 16-19 year old. As I say, all I am arguing is that we need some nuance here.

@Backofbeyond50

So dd is about to enter year 13 and has been offered vaccine. Part of me thinks she should have it as she is going to University next year and no one really knows how COVID affects individuals who are perceived to be low risk. Than there is Long COVID. DH firmly believes she should have it and more importantly she wants it too. I will of course facilitate her choice but why do I have a tiny niggling doubt? I know I have been dripped rather alot of poison from an anti vax relative and I know this will ramp up if she discovers she has had vaccine? So difficult.

Not difficult at all - she wants this and from experience I can tell you this is a horrible illness. She should get the vaccine

It's pretty much nothing to do with you, she doesn't need ur consent. My 16 year old decided he wanted it, I didn't influence him, I helped him find the information he wld need to make his own informed choice.

To be clear , Jonathan Engler is a general anti vaxxer, or anti Pfizer specifically, with his own pharmaceutical interests to push , not an epidemiologist or immunologist, cardiologist or respiratory consultant, and a regular contributor to Conservative Home and Conservative Women, with affiliations to anti vaxx and anti lockdown groups. Him pulling data apart gets no truck from me.

[quote KeepYourCustardCreams]@Piggywaspushed, I don't know much about Jonathan Engler, but I have looked into the arguments he's made statistically on this point, and I agree.[/quote]
No, his argument is statistically flawed.

It's also depressingly familiar at this point in the pandemic that when you do a quick search you can see he's a member of HART, COVID assembly etc, and all the other anti-vax contingents that cropped up throughout the UK.

He is not an unbiased source and has been downplaying the impact of coronavirus and spreading misinformation about the vaccines for a long time now.

@Piggwaspushed, I will not dismiss a logical argument on the basis of an ad hominem attack. On this specific statistical point, I think he is correct.

No, I’m no longer a teenager, and yes, I have a relatively mild heart condition. But my cardiologist was explicit about the effects that Covid was having on young people - he was seeing many more of them on the wards - welcomed the advent of the vaccine roll-out, and felt that if shown to be safe (which it has been) it should be rolled out to all suitable age groups.

Ad hominem? How??

[quote KeepYourCustardCreams]@Piggywaspushed, briefly, re the last point you made... yes, the myocarditis issue was discussed separately from the heart attack issue (wrt the latter, the cardiologist friend was discussing his own recent clinical experience and his understanding of the yellow card data)[/quote]
I doubt a clinician would have such a poor understanding of how the yellow card data is collected that he would misunderstand it in this way though?

It does seem a little strange that you have these views, are linking to anti-vaccine/COVID denying/anti-suppression policy twitter accounts and happen to have met up with cardiologist at the weekend who is anti the vaccine.

Anyway, I'm sorry your thread is being derailed (in some respects), OP.

All I really have to say is "it's complicated", and that I understand those who are trying to weigh up information in a very imperfect context. All the best to everyone here who's trying to engage with the grey areas and make difficult decisions. Really must get on with some actual work now!