Those of us who were ‘cannon fodder’- how do you feel?

[Onandoff]

I went to a gathering the other day with people who were privileged enough to still be working from home in highly paid city jobs. Their experiences were a stark contrast with mine. It was interesting to hear how protected they’d been, many still getting shopping delivered and only just resuming socialising. They hadn’t been on public transport at all. There was a general air of resentment at being asked to go back to offices and commute. They’d all saved money and were very worried about covid exposure despite being vaccinated. Apparently many workers have completely refused to return.

DH and I were the only key workers there and it brought home how exposed we’d been. Literally all of our family and colleagues caught it and some died or were left disabled. My mum died. In the hospital where I work 80% caught it in the first wave alone.

It’s been interesting to see through this that the jobs essential to society are (generally, appreciate some exceptions like medics) the worst paid. If we’d refused to go in or been redeployed we’d have been sacked. While the privileged middle class are still being pandered to despite vaccination.

I feel that those who went out to work should be financially compensated for the risk we took. At the very least we should be given tax breaks and not be expected to cough up for furlough costs.

I feel that those who went out to work should be financially compensated for the risk we took. At the very least we should be given tax breaks and not be expected to cough up for furlough costs.

Life doesn't work like that. I can't opt out of paying for stuff that I don't agree with like Brexit, Trident or HS2.

My kids both worked during lockdowns and don't feel the same. They are happy to have part-time jobs that didn't disappear overnight

I have seen a lack of respect from some wfh people. Like last Xmas there were so many posts saying "my family have self isolated so we will break the rules" without regard for the people who made self isolation a possibility. I've also seen people slagging off people who were out and about when chances are they were going to work.

ChloeDecker, that's irrelevant.
My point wasn't whether staying home actually protects the NHS; I was responding to statements like 'Some even claim that in doing so they're protecting key workers by staying home.' Whether it works or not/how much it works is by the bye; people WFH for the most part did and do so in good faith that it helps to curb the spread.

@ChloeDecker Yes? Have you got some proof otherwise?

1 in 80 kids have not returned to school following lock downs, that seems a much bigger issue.

I think your anger is misdirected.

People say insensitive things, people are selfish dicks. This is nothing new, this was rife before COVID was rife. So I would set yourself free from being angry at “middle class” people saying stupid shit.

Direct your anger at the government who hung you, and many like you, out to dry.

But, please remember it is not just NHS workers who were going out to work. But it is only NHS workers who get a pay rise within public sector. I would happily take a 3% pay rise over the 0 I’m getting.

So in that respect you are getting compensated.

The sector who I feel really got the hard deal was teachers. Utter joke that they did not get vaccinated early.

I’m not a teacher or work in education by the way.

@IntermittentParps

ChloeDecker, that's irrelevant. My point wasn't whether staying home actually protects the NHS; I was responding to statements like 'Some even claim that in doing so they're protecting key workers by staying home.' Whether it works or not/how much it works is by the bye; people WFH for the most part did and do so in good faith that it helps to curb the spread.

Oh I knew what point you were making and that slogans were used by the government to direct the public, of course, whereby the public then think they were doing the right thing, understandably. By me mentioning the “Schools are Safe” slogan, I was also showing that parents and schools staff were entering schools in ‘good faith’ and even then plenty of the public were telling schools staff (including on this thread still) not to speak up because of course schools are completely safe but doesn’t mean that they actually ‘were’ safe a lot of the time and it doesn’t take much to actually use common sense sometimes to think a bit more about what we say to some people in context.

I quite liked continuing to go into work instead of working from home. It gave me a more normal routine, so was frankly less stressful than trying to work from home. Also, my children were old enough to look after themselves, so no childcare concerns. I was very glad lots of people stayed at home - made things feel much safer for me. Everyone had different experiences, some people definitely got the short, shitty end of the stick, but not everyone who continued to work away from home actually got a particularly bad deal. It really depended on your specific job, where you were living, how far away you worked from home, whether you lived or worked in the city or countryside, what your home circumstances were, what your income was, etc, etc. Also, I still had a job and didn’t have to watch my industry being decimated and colleagues losing their livelihoods. Threads that attempt to simplify reality irritate me somewhat, because they lump too many disparate people together as one group, when people’s situations are more nuanced than that in reality. Closer to reality is that people in lower paid, less secure work get the short end of the stick, wherever they are working from.

A lot of people in WFH jobs literally didn't leave their house. I have friends who lived alone who this was awful for. Careers have been halted and altered though lack of exposure to peers and superiors. I am desperate to get back to the office. Some people renting a room in London literally lived and worked in an 8ft box for months and their mental health is shot to shit.

Grass is always greener isn't it. Very grateful to key workers but it's a bit of a generalisation to imply that the office working middle class had a breeze. I for one did what I was told I had to do for the greater good.

[quote CBUK22]@ChloeDecker Yes? Have you got some proof otherwise?

1 in 80 kids have not returned to school following lock downs, that seems a much bigger issue.[/quote]
Yes I do. Please see attached. School staff and children (and their families) were not safe from catching Covid at any point really.

And also yes, I completely agree that the statistic of 1 in 80 children not returning to schools is shocking and I have participated on threads on Mumsnet discussing this if you want to check.

Part of this issue is poor funding (like has been previously discussed on here, money would be better spent on this issue than govt failed vanity projects, no?) and partly people working from home not fully supporting those young people and their families as they should have been (lots falling on schools as usual though because it is okay for those staff to be face to face unvaccinated).
All something we should be talking about, even if it is unpalatable for many to read.

Not read the full thread.

I'm a teacher.

Fact is we had to go onto lockdown and as many people as possible had to WFH.

Some jobs can't be done from home, those workers had to carry on. It's not fair as some people were exposed to a higher risk than others but it just had to be. Get over it.

I'd much rather have job security than furlough any day.

I don't resent those that worked from home just because they worked from. It would be stupid to.

There are a few that do annoy me. Those that are back in the pub, back at football and very glad their kids are back in school but when asked when are they back in the office then say it's till too dangerous.

Wanting to carry on working from home I understand but just say it. Don't give me this "It's not safe yet" bollocks..

There was no lockdown, there was just poor people bringing things to wealthy people.

^^ Absolutely this
The people who polished their halos for not going anywhere for months on end could only do this because of poor people serving them by working in poorly ventilated warehouse, delivering stuff, maintaining utilities and keeping the services like rubbish collection going.

I don't think that danger money will ever be paid considering attitudes towards those on lower wages.

It's telling that Hancock resigned over his affair rather than gaslighting about there never being a PPE shortage which is despicable

I feel that those who went out to work should be financially compensated for the risk we took. At the very least we should be given tax breaks and not be expected to cough up for furlough costs

Whilst I appreciate hearing people moan about having to return to the office would be insensitive to those who have worked throughout, been ill, lost colleagues and so on... This is the part I don't agree with.

We can't all opt out of paying for things which don't affect us. There are lots of things that I and others pay taxes for that we don't actually use/benefit from. It's about the wider society.

We, as a society, benefitted from a huge portion of the workforce staying at home. Therefore we, as a society, need to pay for that. You can't go around deducting people's taxes because they didn't require X Y or Z.

Where does it end? Should the childless get a tax rebate for using less services, schools, GPs etc...? Should you get a refund if you don't phone the emergency services for the year?

I've never once needed to phone for the police fortunately, so why should I have had to pay taxes toward emergency services for the previous years when I haven't needed them!

The OP’s not suggesting she gets a tax break because she didn’t need furlough though OldandaBit. She’s suggesting it as an alternative form of extra pay, for having worked in a WOH job and so taken a greater risk of catching covid than WFHers. Basically danger money as a PP puts it - bit like the fire service get paid quite a lot per hour, because of the risk.

@minipie

The OP’s not suggesting she gets a tax break because she didn’t need furlough though OldandaBit. She’s suggesting it as an alternative form of extra pay, for having worked in a WOH job and so taken a greater risk of catching covid than WFHers. Basically danger money as a PP puts it - bit like the fire service get paid quite a lot per hour, because of the risk.

At the very least we should be given tax breaks and not be expected to cough up for furlough cost

Erm... It's exactly what she suggested.

My point was we can't all say 'at the very least we should be given a tax break and not be expected to cough up for universal credit I don't claim/schools I don't have children in/ emergency services I haven't used/Brexit I didn't vote for and so on...'

OP, whether she wants to admit it or not, still benefitted (because society did as a whole) from furlough and people WFH.

I absolutely have no problem and would actively welcome a pay rise for people working in frontline jobs. There are far too many people earning minimum wage in incredibly important jobs.

But the notion of 'i shouldn't have to pay toward X because I didn't use it' isn't how it works and is not something I can get behind.

I also don't like the divide this whole thing has seemed to cause. My husband still went to work during the pandemic, I was able to stay at home fortunately. Neither is anyone's fault. And whilst I think people in these jobs are fantastic there does seem to be an undercurrent of feeling that people who WFH or were furloughed did something "wrong" or just didn't help out enough as if they had a choice.

And for every thread there was on MN bashing teachers for example, there was another bashing people 'having a long holiday on furlough' where there would hundreds of poster's going on about not wanting to pay for their holiday, how lazy they were, having it easy, "baking at home with the family" and so on...

People think because their aunties, best friends, Mum had an awesome time on furlough or because they saw someone post on Facebook that they were enjoying the sun in their garden, that everyone's been sat around loving life. In reality there will be lots of people who'd have given anything to be able to go to work on full pay, people who've lost out hugely financially, their businesses, their jobs etc...

Because you know some people who loved being on furlough doesn't mean anything. I could say I know a nurse or a teacher thats lazy, it doesn't mean anything though.

At the very least we should be given tax breaks and not be expected to cough up for furlough cost

Erm... It's exactly what she suggested.

Erm… minipie is right that the OP didn’t say because the she didn’t get furlough, she should get a tax break, the OP suggested because she was out working in unsafe conditions, she shouldn’t have to contribute the the furlough costs. Now, you may obviously disagree with that, as do I but minipie was correct to be fair.

@ChloeDecker

At the very least we should be given tax breaks and not be expected to cough up for furlough cost

Erm... It's exactly what she suggested.

Erm… minipie is right that the OP didn’t say because the she didn’t get furlough, she should get a tax break, the OP suggested because she was out working in unsafe conditions, she shouldn’t have to contribute the the furlough costs. Now, you may obviously disagree with that, as do I but minipie was correct to be fair.

Erm.. what's the difference?

OP doesn't want to pay for furlough because she was out working i.e. she didn't use it.

You can get all pedantic about what specific language was used if you like. But OP clearly meant she shouldn't have to cough up for furlough because she was working. It's a sentiment we've seen repeatedly on MN throughout.

Erm.. what's the difference?

Difference:
What you are saying the OP specifically said: “I don’t want to contribute to furlough because I didn’t get furlough”

What the OP is saying “I didn’t work from home and worked in a risky environment , so I would like to be compensated for that-maybe through tax breaks and not by contributing to furlough”.

Not all people not ‘going out to work’ were furloughed hence the OP is not being specific to only those furloughed in her reasoning. Part of her solution yes but not sole reason.

I do agree with everything else you are saying but minipie was originally correct in what they posted.

Thank you ChloeDecker!

I don’t feel any bitterness I guess it is what it is. Throughout all of this I’ve worked in different front facing roles such as a primary school teaching assistant and a social care support worker in various settings. Throughout the second lockdown I really didn’t fancy home schooling so I purposefully took the TA role so my kids could be in school so I made the key worker position work in my favour. Make of that what you will.

I am in a new role now working from home, working a LOT LESS and earning a LOT MORE.

Apologies for the capitals but I felt like they were necessary.

not be expected to cough up for furlough cost

If we weren't all 'coughing up' for furlough costs then we would be 'coughing up' for unemployment benefit for the million plus people who would have lost their jobs.

Instead furlough has saved jobs, businesses and charities, in come cases entire sectors and industries meaning the economy will recover faster.

In the long run we will pay less for furlough than we would have for mass unemployment.

@Onandoff
I’m really sorry for your loss. It’s clearly been an awful time.
I hope that the pain eases in time. Were you offered any bereavement counselling ? Not suggesting for a minute that it is a magic solution as clearly there are lots of things going on but it might help you find some degree of peace in the longer term.
Offering this comment from the perspective that as a consequence of some life events that were out of my hands, I became extremely angry and it made me ill, and some of what I read chimes with me then.