Those of us who were ‘cannon fodder’- how do you feel?

[Onandoff]

I went to a gathering the other day with people who were privileged enough to still be working from home in highly paid city jobs. Their experiences were a stark contrast with mine. It was interesting to hear how protected they’d been, many still getting shopping delivered and only just resuming socialising. They hadn’t been on public transport at all. There was a general air of resentment at being asked to go back to offices and commute. They’d all saved money and were very worried about covid exposure despite being vaccinated. Apparently many workers have completely refused to return.

DH and I were the only key workers there and it brought home how exposed we’d been. Literally all of our family and colleagues caught it and some died or were left disabled. My mum died. In the hospital where I work 80% caught it in the first wave alone.

It’s been interesting to see through this that the jobs essential to society are (generally, appreciate some exceptions like medics) the worst paid. If we’d refused to go in or been redeployed we’d have been sacked. While the privileged middle class are still being pandered to despite vaccination.

I feel that those who went out to work should be financially compensated for the risk we took. At the very least we should be given tax breaks and not be expected to cough up for furlough costs.

[quote Capodimonte]@Onandoff I think I understand what you are saying. It's not so much the fact that people were WFH, it's more the current situation, and hearing people complaining about having to go back in to the office. When the whole way through most of the population didn't get any choice to stay at home, no matter how scary it was at times. It must almost feel like, well it was the ok for me to go in all the way through this, but now it's not ok for you to go back.[/quote]
I think while continued risk of COVID is a factor, there are also other considerations here: and what underlies them all is a cost/benefit ratio that doesn’t make sense.

For lots of jobs there is no real imperative or benefit to being in a specific office location – as many companies and workers have had confirmed decisively during lockdown.

Yet the ‘costs’ are often piled up on the other side of the equation: lengthy commutes, more stress, wraparound childcare, less time with family, lower quality of life, higher outlay, less disposable income.

When there is no appreciable benefit to justify these costs, then it isn’t surprising that people are questioning an arbitrary return to an office.

Why shouldn’t they question that?

People returning to work in offices when they don’t need to won’t benefit key workers.

And on the other side of it, if it were possible for key workers such as nurses to deliver care without being put at any risk, surely that would be better too?

Isn’t the whole point that risk for key workers should be minimised, not that risk for WFH workers should be maximised? If commuting to an office would benefit someone somehow then fine, but if it doesn’t then what’s the point.

*live

@Nokitchenmary

Were many NHS staff furloughed? My hospital trust is 5000+ staff, if people couldn't work their normal job, for example because they had to shield, they were given office jobs (with their agreement) and kept their salary/ jobs held for them etc. There were very, very few who couldn't be accommodated in that way and most were signed off sick. We furloughed noone.

Furlough wasn’t available to the public sector, so the answer is none!

The teachers that were leaned on most in the first lockdown at my school were PE, Art, DT, Drama and Music.

Whilst other teachers were on the rota for keyworker pupils, these were the ones that were actually expected to teach 'lessons' both online and F2F because at least one session was to be practical so that the key worker pupils were not sat at a computer all day.

I can understand your resentment but please don't blame the 'middle class' for everything in the world. Don't you see this is exactly what the Tories want so blame is deflected from them?

I am a key worker yet in this pandered middle class hiding at home that you speak of. Friends of mine are 'middle class' but are nurses and doctors. So your blame is flawed.

We saved money because we weren't allowed to do anything. I had no choice about WFH, my office has been closed to anyone bar a few since March 23rd. We did what we were told to do, by law so I am not really sure what the point of blaming anyone is?

"Cannon Fodder."
Fgs, get a grip

Another instance of people completely misunderstanding something or just making something up and then acting like they have a legitimate grievance against it! Do people not realise that speaks purely to their own character?!

I think the resentment comes from these situations.

DH and I secondary teachers. Fair enough. We can’t WFH.

DD’s friend has a mum who works in NHS admin 14 hours a week (so still can claim tax credits - whole other thread). She and her husband worked from home throughout - they still do. She got the vaccine before 5 months before me because she was NHS. She will have a booster in autumn. She took advantage of the Morrisons NHS Only shop hour. Every Thursday she posted the sounds of the claps she received for being NHS. It’s these situations that causes resentment.

I feel more sympathy for those who have lost their jobs, homes, businesses and are still struggling to make ends meet. I’m happy to pay whatever they want to tax me, to make sure those people can keep their children fed and keep a roof over their heads.

But to be honest any kind of divisiveness is unhelpful. Most people have struggled with something during the past 18 months, racing to the bottom to prove who was worst off is pointless. Any nation who asks ‘how are we going to pay for it’ when ‘it’ is to make sure people aren’t struggling during a global pandemic, needs to take a long hard look at itself.

@MiaAnnabell3

"Cannon Fodder." Fgs, get a grip

Well great you’ve turned up with that sensitive & incisive summary. Really adds a nuance and brevity to the thread.

@motherrunner

I think the resentment comes from these situations.

DH and I secondary teachers. Fair enough. We can’t WFH.

DD’s friend has a mum who works in NHS admin 14 hours a week (so still can claim tax credits - whole other thread). She and her husband worked from home throughout - they still do. She got the vaccine before 5 months before me because she was NHS. She will have a booster in autumn. She took advantage of the Morrisons NHS Only shop hour. Every Thursday she posted the sounds of the claps she received for being NHS. It’s these situations that causes resentment.

Very similar to the Speech Therapist we know. WFH throughout-loved the claps and the discounts and the very very early vaccine. Has been at no covid risk at all work wise since last March.

Not having a pop at NHS staff btw. Just that there will always be people who will use and abuse a system.

@SproutMuncher

I’m someone with long covid, caught from my husband working on the covid ICU so don’t bother with the “what do you do for a living” passive aggression.

Compensating the family of people who have died is a completely different kettle of fish to what you’re actually arguing for: “I feel that those who went out to work should be financially compensated for the risk we took. at the very least we should be given tax breaks and not be expected to cough up for furlough costs”. So people pay different levels of tax depending on a moral judgment as to how much effort the put into the pandemic?

However having read your recent posts I now see you’re just on an angry rant and not interested in sensible discussion at all.

You don’t work then

Some private businesses did give additional 'incentive' pay for people to work throughout (which some were calling hazard pay, though I don't know any businesses that called it that). Others were working at cut pay, as pp mentioned. There is no universal experience - not everyone who worked did their usual jobs, not everyone who was furloughed felt protected.

I can see why other professions would push for similar 'incentive pay', particularly those at the front line in health care, social work, and education, even if not direct financial consideration, then better funding to do their job safer with proper protection, staffing levels, training and for policies to be more than wishes on a piece of paper that don't help or have any actions taken when they can't be met.

I can also see it being really frustrating having gone through that to see people who didn't going about how unsafe it is with little thought to those who made it possible, but we don't know what shite they went through during all this and there is little benefit for us to turn on each other over who had a better or worse pandemic...

With that title I was expecting a thread about having served in Afghanistan...

That's what I thought too.

Equally many working class jobs were on furlough, paid to stay at home. All those employed in non-essential retail, hospitality, and tourism.

It's true that it's not a firm class issue and many working class jobs were furloughed, but not all those employed in non-essential retail, hospitality, and tourism were paid to stay at home. Anything that reopened quickly will have had people doing site maintenance throughout (I know some places that couldn't because of failing legionnaires testing or similar basic safety testing, I've heard of deaths elsewhere related to that but not in the UK). My spouse was doing this during the first lockdown, definitely not carrying as his normal, alongside supporting hotels that remained open in our area to support NHS staff & other keyworkers or were acting as shelters for homeless or other vulnerable groups which is what he did through the other lockdowns.

I’m sick of the back teeth with these sort of posts from arseholes who likely have no friends in the real world- for good reason.

Pre-COVID, loneliness and isolation were discussed at being at 'epidemic levels' and the link between it and mortality rates. I doubt we'll see that language again soon though COVID has made it worse for many groups and using a lack of friends as an insult is unlikely to hurt someone you think is rude online, but may hurt someone else on a forum where plenty of people have discussed feeling isolated and blaming themselves for that.

@motherrunner

I think the resentment comes from these situations.

DH and I secondary teachers. Fair enough. We can’t WFH.

DD’s friend has a mum who works in NHS admin 14 hours a week (so still can claim tax credits - whole other thread). She and her husband worked from home throughout - they still do. She got the vaccine before 5 months before me because she was NHS. She will have a booster in autumn. She took advantage of the Morrisons NHS Only shop hour. Every Thursday she posted the sounds of the claps she received for being NHS. It’s these situations that causes resentment.

Sounds like your choice to feel resentful is what’s causing resentment if there is any.

I thought public servants couldn't be furloughed?

I only know of private school staff who were furloughed, a science teacher, a couple of PE teachers and some office staff.

@MiddleParking What choice are you referring to?

@motherrunner

I think the resentment comes from these situations.

DH and I secondary teachers. Fair enough. We can’t WFH.

DD’s friend has a mum who works in NHS admin 14 hours a week (so still can claim tax credits - whole other thread). She and her husband worked from home throughout - they still do. She got the vaccine before 5 months before me because she was NHS. She will have a booster in autumn. She took advantage of the Morrisons NHS Only shop hour. Every Thursday she posted the sounds of the claps she received for being NHS. It’s these situations that causes resentment.

Doesn't cause resentment to me, i had to go out to work regardless and others situations didn't change that. If things like that affect you perhaps try and find ways to deal with it.

Tories would smile with glee at the continued success of divide and rule if they saw this thread.

You're pointing fingers at the wrong people, look up.

I don't resent the individuals who used their job to get a vaccine early. I'd probably have done the same.

I resent the government prioritising 'NHS' without any thought to other public facing jobs.

@Hercisback

I don't resent the individuals who used their job to get a vaccine early. I'd probably have done the same.

I resent the government prioritising 'NHS' without any thought to other public facing jobs.

They didn't prioritise NHS above all other public facing jobs. They prioritised health care jobs. Staff of private care homes were vaccinated at the same time as NHS staff.

@Bawse I actually completely agree with what you say there. What has been highlighted is how pointless having to go into the office can be for a lot of people, and how much more productive work can be from home, alongside a better work/life/financial balance permanent wfh can be.

I wfh on a permanent basis and did so for years before the lockdown. So nothing changed for me. My post was more showing the op that I could see where she was coming from, and that I kind of understood why she felt upset about the situation.

[quote motherrunner]@MiddleParking What choice are you referring to?[/quote]
Your choice to feel resentful of the woman you referred to.

You don’t work then

I do. Key worker role but on maternity leave in first lockdown, worked in the second one.

Not that there is anything wrong with not working. Lots of people have lost their jobs in this pandemic and would love to have a job to go out to work to.

@JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon

Yet they didn't vaccinate prison officers, police, teachers, shop workers etc.