Vaccines versus infection

[Dustyboots]

Interesting article here. I found it informative.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58270098

Looks like it's not discussing infection or vaccination, but rather do we need booster vaccines, or was the first round of vaccines enough, followed by "boosters" of repeated infection?

There is clear evidence that adults who have not had any vaccine dose will have stronger immune defences if they do get vaccinated, even if they have caught Covid before.

But there are two big questions:

do vaccinated adults need to be boosted, or is exposure to the virus enough?
do children need vaccinating at all, or does a lifetime of encountering build a good immune defence?

Yes, I read this yesterday.

Particularly interesting about the location of antibodies and the breadth of immunity after infection.

I’m wondering if it’s the beginning of trying to reassure people that natural immunity is also effective protection. Perhaps because of the panic that some people are feeling over the decision not to vaccinate children.

?

That’s interesting. I’m not sure why it’s met with such suspicion on here to suggest that natural immunity offers strong protection.

Though it looks like a combination of infection and vaccine offers even further protection. Which is very good news for the U.K.

I agree we shouldn’t get panicked into endless cycles of booster shots if they aren’t needed.

@bumbleymummy

Yes, I read this yesterday.

Particularly interesting about the location of antibodies and the breadth of immunity after infection.

I’m wondering if it’s the beginning of trying to reassure people that natural immunity is also effective protection. Perhaps because of the panic that some people are feeling over the decision not to vaccinate children.

I also read it and though this is the government drip feeding something into the news they want us to get on board with.

I hate them and will dance in the streets when we have proper grown ups running the country again.

I also read it and though this is the government drip feeding something into the news they want us to get on board with

I don't think so. I think it is more of a case of further studies now coming up, after a year of data, with a clearer understanding of what drives immunity. Studies in Singapore have been released showing that previous infection with SARS/MERS gave and continues to give, long lasting protection against ALL the variants of Covid.

I was quite surprised to read the article and hope this is a turning point to admitting naturally-gained immunity is actually a useful thing! Up till now it's been pretty much dismissed in this country.

@BigWoollyJumpers

I also read it and though this is the government drip feeding something into the news they want us to get on board with

I don't think so. I think it is more of a case of further studies now coming up, after a year of data, with a clearer understanding of what drives immunity. Studies in Singapore have been released showing that previous infection with SARS/MERS gave and continues to give, long lasting protection against ALL the variants of Covid.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree regarding how our government operates.

IMO they have too much form for 'seeding' ideas into the public domain via the press so they can gauge opinion for me, rightly or wrongly, not to see it as more of the same.

@ACreakingGateNeverStops - I agree with you. This useless government has no more ideas and no more will to protect its people. Fucking awful.

@CrunchyCarrot

I was quite surprised to read the article and hope this is a turning point to admitting naturally-gained immunity is actually a useful thing! Up till now it's been pretty much dismissed in this country.

I think you've misunderstood the science there. Or lept to this end of the current research and not appreciated the steps taken to gain data.

Covid remains a novel virus. No assumptions have stood without having been tested over time. As more data has been gathered understanding has been updated.

All done in real time with varying levels of certainty, validity etc.

Some have seen that as indecisive, fuckwitted or have concocted some odd conspiracy, assumed we are being drip fed for some reason of control far beyond that of pandemic management.

Others have watched and waited for the weight of data to manufacture some reliability in data before making comment.

Mostly though people have, over 18 months, become more expert than actual experts with 18+ years education and experience in specific scientific areas.

There's no need for discussion over vaccine vs natural immunity, when there's way more risk of severe illness and death from the virus. It's pointless. Those who don't want to vaccinate just keep on going on about it, but with what cost? Death isn't only thing that is likely to happen when you are exposed un prepared. It's pure stupidity, imo. More you can save people from getting severe disease, out come for society would be better.
Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19

@CuriousaboutSamphire well other countries have been accepting proof of infection within the past 6 months as one of the options for their 'green pass' for several months now. We haven't been doing that in the UK.

@ACreakingGateNeverStops I also agree with you - both of your points.

[quote bumbleymummy]@CuriousaboutSamphire well other countries have been accepting proof of infection within the past 6 months as one of the options for their 'green pass' for several months now. We haven't been doing that in the UK.[/quote]
They also recommend these people are still vaccinated.

But they obviously still recognise it as proof of some kind of immunity while the UK do not. That's the point I was making in response to your reply to carrot. Natural immunity has been somewhat dismissed here. Hopefully that will now change if we're 'following the science'.

oops, thought that was Samphire replying to me. So I was making the point in relation to Samphire's reply to carrot, not yours.

[quote bumbleymummy]@CuriousaboutSamphire well other countries have been accepting proof of infection within the past 6 months as one of the options for their 'green pass' for several months now. We haven't been doing that in the UK.[/quote]
And? That 'proves' nothing other than different strategies in different countries.

Maybe, likely, that the UK strategy will continue to change, as will every other country. But it shouldn't do it based on anything other than rigorous studies.

@bumbleymummy

oops, thought that was Samphire replying to me. So I was making the point in relation to Samphire's reply to carrot, not yours.

Well, I've replied now. Knock yourself out ☺️

@bumbleymummy

But they obviously still recognise it as proof of some kind of immunity while the UK do not. That's the point I was making in response to your reply to carrot. Natural immunity has been somewhat dismissed here. Hopefully that will now change if we're 'following the science'.

Natural immunity has not been "dismissed"

As I said, the article is not about infection versus vaccination.

I never thought immunity from infection was completely dismissed. I thought the question always was more about how effective and long lasting it was.

And? That 'proves' nothing other than different strategies in different countries.

It shows that natural immunity has been somewhat dismissed here in the U.K., as carrot stated.

I never said it hadn't. You may be mistaking me for another.

Your reply to carrot didn’t exactly sound like you agreed with her point. Fair enough if you do.

It’s fair to say that natural immunity was never outright dismissed, @CuriousaboutSamphire. Certainly amongst scientists there’s a real discussion.

But discussion in the public sphere was shoved aside quite vehemently and aggressively at some points in the past year or so. It was almost heretical to talk about it in some circles, and especially on MN!

But it’s good to see the discussion starting now. regardless whether it’s drip fed from HMG, or elsewhere, it’s a useful perspective.