If this applies to your thinking, can I ask why you wouldn't have an unvaccinated person inside your house with others?

[Liveonyournerves]

So, at some point in the not too distant future, I will likely have a small gathering inside my house. We are double jabbed. Most people I know are double jabbed but a couple aren't.

I'm trying to work through the rationale behind not wanting them (instinctively) in my house. But surely, whilst they might be more likely to transmit CV, a double jabber can also do this? Surely, the risk is more towards the non-vaccinated - who, ironically, are safer because we've all been jabbed?

Am I missing something?

@Paulinna

Because you instinctively know that they’re putting their own selfishness ahead of the well-being of society as a whole. People aren’t inclined to be charitable towards those who obviously only care about themselves. It’s the same reason that conscientious objectors were hated during the war - because they were the only ones not doing their bit.

Oh can we please stop this "selfish" nonsense. We know the covid vaccines can have serious side effects. People have died. They are not collateral damage.

If people don't want the vaccination that is up to them. It's not for you to tell other people they should do something they feel may risk their health or lives. I got the vaccine because I decided the risk of the illness was higher than the risk of the vaccine. Other people take a different view - up to them.

And there was nothing wrong with being a conscientious objector, either. In fact there is nothing wrong with being a coward, your life expectancy may be greater (even if you miss out on exciting things).

Oh and by the way a lot of conscientious objectors were stretcher bearers and died in higher numbers than the soldiers did. They were absolutely doing their bit, and you betray a lack of education.

@namechangeandNC

Well it's all over the new today that being double vaxxed gives you protection from severe illness but doesn't reduce transmission.

So you're at no extra risk having people who aren't double vaxxed in your home.

Buy you are also still less likely to catch Covid being vaxxed so fewer potential infection people.

However you look at it being vaccinated helps. So still reasons to ask, for the time being, unvaccinated guests to sit this party out if you want to, as unvaccinated can ask the vaccinated sheeple to stay away from their parties if they want.

As all say being vaccinated is a choice, as much of a choice as who you invite round to your house. So if you are unvaccinated and don't get invited round you can't be upset the hosts are just using their freedom of choice as the person choosing not to get jabbed did. It's the same thing but with different outcomes.

Honestly if an unvaccinated friend said to us you are a sheeple we don't want you at this BBQ it wouldn't bother me one bit I would just get on with the day. I would expect the same nonchalance from an unvaxxed if it was visa versa.

People just like to have reasons to get the hump nowadays don't they? There's nothing to get the hump about.

@sar302

It has become instinctive in some people because we spent at least a year in the past 18 months being told that COVID is a death sentence, standing next to someone who has it means you'll get it, touching someone, breathing the same air etc.

It can be hard to reset your thinking and come out the other side.

Logically those who are unvaccinated are the most vulnerable.

Face the fear, have the gathering, enjoy the time with your friends that has been sorely missing for a long time.

^this.

Every unvaccinated person presents a much greater risk than a vaccinated one.

Unless the unvaccinated person is immune after infection.

@bumbleymummy

Every unvaccinated person presents a much greater risk than a vaccinated one.

Unless the unvaccinated person is immune after infection.

"Unless" doesn't really have a place a place in public health in the way you're trying to imply. Chemotherapy is likely to help for specific types of cancer, unless it kills you, but overall is associated with a greater odds of survival which is why it is recommended.

On a group level, vaccinated people are less likely to transmit coronavirus than unvaccinated.

A recent study has demonstrated that even if those with a previous infection, vaccination significantly reduces the risk of a repeated infection (and therefore the risk of transmitting it to someone else.)

At the moment I would have to think about it very carefully - it wouldn't be an outright no but would probably effect how we hosted an event.
Both DH & I are double jabbed however I am on immunosuppressants and one of which is known (studied) to have an issue with the efficacy of the production of CV19 antibodies and unless I am tested (no plans for this) there is no way to tell how effective it is for me. Without a properly functioning immune system catching anything let alone CV19 is a worry for me.
We have hosted at ours but have tended to stick to outdoors or with lots of windows open for through ventilation. We are also lucky to have lots of space so we can generally socially distance rather than cramming up together.

An unvaccinated person does not pose any risk to anyone unless they are infected. An unvaccinated previously infected person is not the same risk as an unvaccinated person who has not been previously infected.

A vaccinated person could still be a risk to others if they are infected.

Therefore this statement is not accurate:

Every unvaccinated person presents a much greater risk than a vaccinated one

Ultimately if you don't want unvaccinated people in your home don't have them. Entirely up to you. Me, I don't care what people do its entirely up to them and it wouldn't stop me from inviting them.

@bumbleymummy

An unvaccinated person does not pose any risk to anyone unless they are infected. An unvaccinated previously infected person is not the same risk as an unvaccinated person who has not been previously infected.

A vaccinated person could still be a risk to others if they are infected.

Therefore this statement is not accurate:

Every unvaccinated person presents a much greater risk than a vaccinated one

Yup that's why it's important to think about it in population terms, not exceptions (when you're considering public health policies)

On a group level, vaccinated people are less likely to transmit coronavirus than unvaccinated.

A recent study has demonstrated that even if those with a previous infection, vaccination significantly reduces the risk of a repeated infection (and therefore the risk of transmitting it to someone else.)

@bumbleymummy

An unvaccinated person does not pose any risk to anyone unless they are infected. An unvaccinated previously infected person is not the same risk as an unvaccinated person who has not been previously infected.

A vaccinated person could still be a risk to others if they are infected.

Therefore this statement is not accurate:

Every unvaccinated person presents a much greater risk than a vaccinated one

An unvaccinated person does not pose any risk to anyone unless they are infected.

BUT, given identical levels of social activity in a community where covid is present, an unvaccinated person is MUCH more likely to be infected in the first place (and 30% of infections are asymptomatic).

An unvaccinated previously infected person is not the same risk as an unvaccinated person who has not been previously infected.

True, but there are currently no readily available ways of proving immunity from previous infection

A vaccinated person could still be a risk to others if they are infected.
Yes, vaccines are not 100% perfect, and this is why vaccinated people may prefer to minimise their contact with the unvaccinated if they are worried about catching it and passing it onto the elderly/CEV.

Of course we don't know if unvaccinated person B is super cautious and vaccinated person C is a social butterfly who is no longer social distancing at all, so we have to make judgements based on imperfect information and it is categorically true that at a population level unvaccinated people present a much greater risk to others than vaccinated people.

@MareofBeasttown just listen to the news.

I do..That's not my understanding of what the news is saying. An unvaxxed person is more likely to be infected. That hasnt changed.

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-delta-variant-can-still-be-transmitted-by-people-who-are-double-jabbed-but-protection-against-illness-and-death-is-high-12384933

@MareofBeasttown

@hepatocyte I was replying to a specific comment which is inaccurate. I am not talking about public health policy decisions.

True, but there are currently no readily available ways of proving immunity from previous infection

Other countries accept proof of a positive test within a certain time period as proof of immunity. 6 months for most, Ireland has just been advised to extend it to 9 months.

In those countries, it is accepted that an unvaccinated previously infected person is also low risk. If we’re ‘following the science’, it’s time the U.K. updated their policy.

Still havent seen or read anything that says vaxxed people are as likely to catch Covid as the unvaxxed. Those headlines are deceptive. They can still transmit but less likely to...

If they are unvaccinated by choice (rather than for medical reasons or lack of availability of vaccine) I would not have them cross the threshold as they’re either liars or people who fund liars by clicking on their social media. I’ve run out of empathy for people who think they’re cleverer than everyone else on this because too many people have got sucked into this nonsense and died as a result. The tipping point was a story about a pregnant woman and her unborn child dying. Unvaccinated. Sure, some vaccinated people will die, but look at the hospital statistics at the moment. Everyone who slaps themselves on the back for being too clever to get vaccinated is complicit in these deaths.

[quote bumbleymummy]@hepatocyte I was replying to a specific comment which is inaccurate. I am not talking about public health policy decisions.

True, but there are currently no readily available ways of proving immunity from previous infection

Other countries accept proof of a positive test within a certain time period as proof of immunity. 6 months for most, Ireland has just been advised to extend it to 9 months.

In those countries, it is accepted that an unvaccinated previously infected person is also low risk. If we’re ‘following the science’, it’s time the U.K. updated their policy.[/quote]
Those countries also recommend that everyone is vaccinated regardless of previous infection status?

@LemonWeb

If they are unvaccinated by choice (rather than for medical reasons or lack of availability of vaccine) I would not have them cross the threshold as they’re either liars or people who fund liars by clicking on their social media. I’ve run out of empathy for people who think they’re cleverer than everyone else on this because too many people have got sucked into this nonsense and died as a result. The tipping point was a story about a pregnant woman and her unborn child dying. Unvaccinated. Sure, some vaccinated people will die, but look at the hospital statistics at the moment. Everyone who slaps themselves on the back for being too clever to get vaccinated is complicit in these deaths.

Yes, look at the hospital statistics. The highest rate of hospitalisation is still in the older age groups. Young people are still at very low risk of hospitalisation.

Not everyone who decides not to get vaccinated is basing their decision on internet conspiracy theories.

@MareofBeasttown

Still havent seen or read anything that says vaxxed people are as likely to catch Covid as the unvaxxed. Those headlines are deceptive. They can still transmit but less likely to...

It doesn't say that vaxxed people are as likely to catch it as unvaxxed?

It says that the two groups of people are as likely to TRANSMIT it.

Those countries also recommend that everyone is vaccinated regardless of previous infection status?

And? We’re discussing whether or not unvaccinated people are always more of a risk to others than vaccinated people.

Ok I give up. The vaxxed and unvaxxed are exactly the same as far as risk goes. Never mind that you can't transmit if you havent got Covid in the first place. The headline is that both transmit the same and that's all we need to go by. Anyway all moot for me as I don't know anyone who is unvaxxed any more.

@MareofBeasttown

Ok I give up. The vaxxed and unvaxxed are exactly the same as far as risk goes. Never mind that you can't transmit if you havent got Covid in the first place. The headline is that both transmit the same and that's all we need to go by. Anyway all moot for me as I don't know anyone who is unvaxxed any more.

But surely you can see of they are more likely to catch it (50 per cent higher chance of contracting the virus than those vaccinated) then they are also more likely to be passing it on (especially asymptomatically)?

Besides, other studies contradict the idea that the vaxxed/ unvaxxed are equally able to pass it on. (www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/)

@Jng1 I was being facetious in response to the previous poster who was claiming both pose the same risk! Also frustrated. I agree entirely with your point.

[quote MareofBeasttown]@Jng1 I was being facetious in response to the previous poster who was claiming both pose the same risk! Also frustrated. I agree entirely with your point.[/quote]
Oops sorry! I should have read it better!

I have been having these conversations with people I know and feel equally frustrated at their inability to understand the different risks at play!