Australia in a mess - NZ with a plan

[StartupRepair]

More than half of Australia is in lockdown now, sparked (imo) by the intransigence of the NSW Premier who ignored all warnings about Delta. Our procurement of and messaging around vaccines has been dangerously incompetent.
It all feels a bit bleak today. At least NZ seems to have a plan.

Death in children may be rare but that's no comfort to the families of the children that will die when they could have been offered a safe vaccine.

Are there any protections in place for the kids going back to school now?

Do you mean in Australia @disco123 ? They aren’t at school in NSW and Victoria at the moment. They’re vaccinating 12+ soon (not sure of date) and in primary are doing things like teaching in a mask, trying not to mix years, no big groups (band, assembly etc). They are only going back for about 6 weeks of term 4 and then get 6-8 weeks off for the summer holiday anyway.

Oh and please don’t think I’m callous about children (given that I have two) - I just know that children are suffering by not being in school and actually the outcomes for some, being at home in violent families etc will be worse than facing Covid.

@Ozgirl75

Do you mean in Australia *@disco123* ? They aren’t at school in NSW and Victoria at the moment. They’re vaccinating 12+ soon (not sure of date) and in primary are doing things like teaching in a mask, trying not to mix years, no big groups (band, assembly etc). They are only going back for about 6 weeks of term 4 and then get 6-8 weeks off for the summer holiday anyway.

No, I mean in the UK. Summer holidays just finishing and they were doing bubbles and staggered times and things last I heard. I was wondering if that was still in place, or if COVID is just going to be allowed to spread though schools unchecked, when there is a safe vaccine available for over 12s.

Oh sorry, it’s hard to keep track on who’s in Aus and who’s in the U.K. on this thread!
Yes I was also wondering if they were just sending them back as if the pandemic is now done and dusted.

Ifaik masks are still mandatory in Scotland but not England or wales. Bubbles are bigger and there is a Case by case ‘do what you want’ instruction from the government. So schools can decide which children should isolate if there is a case. Afaik children under 12 are exempt and can carry on as normal just the child with covid isolates. My children haven’t started school yet here so it’s all a mystery atm 😐

@disco123

Death in children may be rare but that's no comfort to the families of the children that will die when they could have been offered a safe vaccine.

Are there any protections in place for the kids going back to school now?

Yes the vaccine is safe for over 12's.

It's just the JVCI aren't convinced yet, that it's safer for an over 12 than catching Covid. Children over 12 who they believe could be at risk are vaccinated.

As I say that may change.

I think Germany may have same policy- or they did before anyway.

I think Aus is doing so much better now and it's heartening to see the percentage increasing in the at risk groups.

I do think Vic needs to sort it out though! They should be vaccinated at at at same rate as NSW and using AZ as much as NSW.

Its wrong when they moan about supply- it's supposed of Pfizer that is limited.

Sorry above should say Children over 12 who are at risk from Covid are.

Fat fingers

Basically children over 12 who are eligible aren't vaccinated yet. But can now come forward for vaccination.

Kids are going back to school as more or less “normal” in September ( normal for us anyway )
All high school kids to be tested twice with lfts before returning ( I am a parent helper volunteer doing this next week)
My understanding though is that bubbles are gone or made much smaller. So only very close contacts to be sent home on a positive cases rather than whole class for example which was hugely disruptive and I remember a study that said it was pretty ineffective too.
Talk in U.K. with regards schools is about better ventilation, CO 2 monitors.
Masks are gone but I think schools can reserve the right to reimplement them, staff and students can wear them voluntary of course and many will. Masks on public transport.
They are expecting a rise in cases on return to school but obviously hoping this does not translate to a rise in hospital admissions.
I think government are nervous and will be watching the figures.
There is much talk about a mass vaccination campaign in schools for 12 - 15 year olds. Just waiting for our JCVI to give go ahead. Politicians keen. I am unlikely to give permission for my son though unless he is keen as I am not convinced of the benefit for him personally although I get the argument re. School disruption so may change my mind!

You need to move to qld asap@StartupRepair..
Living la vida up here😉Did the whole of last year inVic with DraconianDan&would rather have Paleceks policies anyday..

@Ozgirl75

We aren’t really having a flu season again - mainly because children have been off school through most of the winter term (all of it in NSW, some in Victoria) and also because lockdowns stop spread of the flu too. Not sure about Tassie and SA which are also cold in winter but I can’t imagine even they’re having much of a flu season as there isn’t the movement of people around to spread it. And *@MRex* I do totally get what you’re saying, and don’t disagree. It was more that the nurse in the article was like “as if this is like the flu” as if flu is some lightweight little cold, when we know that a novel flu, or even just a bad flu season can be absolutely devastating in the effects on children, pregnant women, and older people (even Swine flu in 2009 (I think) which wasn’t terribly bad in flu terms still killed thousands of children worldwide - over 1000 in the USA alone).

I think its been less of a flu season. I had the flu a few weeks ago, despite lockdown. It was nasty. (And yes, I went and got the tests, etc.) It was partially because of lockdown that I decided against the flu vaccine this year, despite being CEV. I'm now getting one on Tuesday

@Ineedsomebody

I was scouring nsw health comments yesterday and came across this. Do you think there’s any truth to it? A person claims that they are not allowed to present themselves or be taken to a hospital if they are positive and have to wait for an ambulance, a second person backs that claim. If this is true I’m at a loss for words. I understand protective measures need to be put in place to stop the spread but they are denying timely medical care which has ultimately cost the person their life.

I'm not sure about the actual person, but it is true that some hospitals in Western Sydney are under so much pressure that they can longer accept Covid patients. I suppose that means critically ill Covid patients are redirected to a hospital that can accept them - hopefully in time.

You need to move to qld asap@StartupRepair..
Living la vida up here😉Did the whole of last year inVic with DraconianDan&would rather have Paleceks policies anyday..

Palaszczuk?

@Ozgirl75 up until the middle of august SA had something like 17 reported cases of Flu this year. Previous year was around 1500 to the same date. Obviously there will be other cases not included in the numbers.

That’s impressive @MoppaSprings especially with you having schools open.
One good thing that’s come out of Covid is the fact that people actually do take time off when they’re sick!

I think the rest of Australia have similar low levels, google tells me it’s around 500 total cases in Australia this year.

@BootsScootsAndToots

Honestly, I can see WA keeping their border closed for as long as they possibly can. But I think Vic and NSW will get majority vaccinated and then live with it

NSW doesn't really have any other choice, their numbers mean it's out there and that's it.

I can see this being the next big divisive topic.

I’m in South Australia. Despite currently having zero cases I want our state borders to reopen to all states even if they have Covid cases after 80% are vaccinated. I haven’t actually said to anyone in person as so many think borders need to stay closed so we can live in zero Covid land forever. Despite having zero cases we still have restrictions. Indoor masks, masks mandatory for all high school students, limits on how many people you can have in your home and capacity restrictions on restaurants.

I’m fully vaccinated and I don’t want to be locked in my state with the risk of a lockdown at any moment for years to come.

Is WA where all the mineral and coal wealth is?
I think strategically and geopolitically it’s vital that the states stay together and stop the political infighting. There will be a few countries I can think of that would be delighted to see a state spilt and Australia no longer functioning properly as one country. Perfect opportunity to slide in there and take advantage of the cracks in the system ( not dissimilar to how some view Brexit and the disruption/ spilts in the EU)
Hopefully Scott Morrison et al have foresight enough to recognise this potential geopolitical danger and put aside their tit for tat

Not all, but a huge proportion, there is no appetite in reality for a split, the WAXIT party lost votes in last election and came in behind the shooters, fishets and farmers party. I do think the other states maybe don't understand how crucial keeping these industries going is for WA, and I'd be surprised if BHP or Rio aren't pushing to keep borders closed. I work in industry and last year we mandated all our FIFO workers and contractors relocate to WA if they wanted to keep working for us (most did). Mining or oil and gas shut-downs / restricted output would be worse for our economy and for so many dependent jobs than any inter state tourism. We had to do a planned shut-down as part of safety cert for 5 days this year, that cost us $100million and that was with years of planning, unplanned due to covid would be crippling.

@DetMcNulty

Not all, but a huge proportion, there is no appetite in reality for a split, the WAXIT party lost votes in last election and came in behind the shooters, fishets and farmers party. I do think the other states maybe don't understand how crucial keeping these industries going is for WA, and I'd be surprised if BHP or Rio aren't pushing to keep borders closed. I work in industry and last year we mandated all our FIFO workers and contractors relocate to WA if they wanted to keep working for us (most did). Mining or oil and gas shut-downs / restricted output would be worse for our economy and for so many dependent jobs than any inter state tourism. We had to do a planned shut-down as part of safety cert for 5 days this year, that cost us $100million and that was with years of planning, unplanned due to covid would be crippling.

Do you not feel trapped there with not knowing when the borders might open?

I was thinking of moving states just before Covid started but I’m going to wait it out and see what happens. I’d hate to move and then be stuck.

I think the media makes it sound worse than it is, at moment we are fully open to Tassie, NT and SA, some restrictions with Vic and Queensland, but only closed to NSW and up until end June we had free movement there, my bro relocated here in July but was commuting back and forward from Sydney to Perth for 3 months before that. I should have said controlled, rather than closed in my last post.

@DetMcNulty

I think the media makes it sound worse than it is, at moment we are fully open to Tassie, NT and SA, some restrictions with Vic and Queensland, but only closed to NSW and up until end June we had free movement there, my bro relocated here in July but was commuting back and forward from Sydney to Perth for 3 months before that. I should have said controlled, rather than closed in my last post.

I’m in South Australia and could technically travel to other states but it’s just too risky at the moment I feel. I know multiple people that have had to isolate after returning from interstate and I just don’t feel it’s a risk worth taking for a holiday at the moment.

This isn’t Covid I’m fearful of (I’m fully vaccinated) but how quickly things can change if there’s even one case.

I feel similar @bluetongue. My family are all in the U.K. and I can’t wait to get back there for a holiday but I can’t risk having to do hotel quarantine with two children, or getting stuck somewhere. My parents are also fully vaccinated and would love to come here and will do as soon as home quarantine is introduced, but they’re 75 and every year that passes is another year older for both them and their grandchildren.
DH and I have seriously considered selling up and moving back to the U.K. which neither of us really want to do as we’re very happy here normally but it just seems like such a long slog until we are free again and Australia is so happy to change the rules with little notice which makes planning life so difficult.

Maybe it's a timing thing, we had a big family get together Christmas 2019, parents and other sister came over from UK, so it's not been all that long yet.

Talking to my friends in Glasgow over weekend, I'm not entirely sure that there won't be more restrictions either, they're starting to worry about winter, although I'm hopeful for them that it won't come to that. We have had a really cold, wet winter (I don't think people realise how cold Perth and the South West get), if it were to play out here, how it did there, then waiting till summer and the hot weather arrives to open fully and let it circulate it would also make more sense.