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Original poster

Australia in a mess - NZ with a plan

999 replies

StartupRepair · 13/08/2021 03:20

More than half of Australia is in lockdown now, sparked (imo) by the intransigence of the NSW Premier who ignored all warnings about Delta. Our procurement of and messaging around vaccines has been dangerously incompetent.
It all feels a bit bleak today. At least NZ seems to have a plan.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
user1477391263 · 18/08/2021 00:03

So much as I love to hate on Dictator Dan, that rule isn’t exactly correct. Two people from a family can exercise together with dependents, but that’s it. So if you lived with (say) grandparents, they can’t also walk/exercise with you.

Sorry, you are correct. One other adult, but not two other adults. Still a bit of a strange rule.

Sagealicious · 18/08/2021 00:32

@AllHailTheGreatGoddess

Sorry *@Sagealicious*, it was a comment on why the RFDS is underfunded.

Apparently pork barrelling by paying over the odds for useless carparks is a better use of government money.

Ah I see. Yeah they are ridiculously underfunded especially considering that if it weren't for them rural and remote Australia would be absolutely stuffed and that's even without Covid.
Ineedsomebody · 18/08/2021 01:23

apple.news/ANfW0Qqf_TUC2ZVp3v7JWBg
Sounds about right.

TattyDevine · 18/08/2021 08:34

The exercising rule for multi generational households makes sense from a point of view of making the police's job easier

Stops them pulling over larger groups only to find out they all live together - or don't.

Remember all the "they can't possibly all have been in the same household" rants from 2020 in the UK - it stops that.

It's not scientific, it's just needed for a police state to keep operating effectively as all these rules and the curfew really puts pressure on the force

Ozgirl75 · 18/08/2021 08:45

I just fail to see how, in a democratic, free country, we find it acceptable to bring in rules simply to make the police’s lives easier.
Where do we draw the line at this? Presumably it would make Doctors lives easier if we banned alcohol? Banned risky sports, definitely banned smoking and fatty food.
Could we make it easier for the police by ensuring that men have a curfew FOREVER so that they don’t carry out any rapes, violent crime etc?
Maybe we should lower the speed limit to 20mph so any crashes will be minor?
How about we ban all boats and indeed sea swimming - we could make lifeguards and coastguards lives much easier.
I mean there are loads of things we could do to make lives easier but we don’t do them because of my favourite current word “proportionality”.

AllHailTheGreatGoddess · 18/08/2021 08:54

police's job easier, if typing that doesn't horrify you, I can't imagine what will.

Laws should not exist for the convenience of the state.

Ozgirl75 · 18/08/2021 09:24

I feel like we’re kindred spirits @AllHailTheGreatGoddess
It amazes me that there aren’t more journalists asking these questions. Also, when tf are our children going back to school? All very well talking about hairdressers and beauticians opening, but we need children back in the classroom.

AllHailTheGreatGoddess · 18/08/2021 09:56

Just occupying the vast sensible (and mostly silent) middle Ozgirl75.

I can see the issue (highly transmissible novel virus), but am not willing to sacrifice everything to control it.

It is unpalatable but sooner or later Australians will realise there is an acceptable number of sickness and death. Could be me, could be someone I love, but this is simply unsustainable.

We just need to be careful what we give up.

sashagabadon · 18/08/2021 09:58

Ozgirl - I'm a kindred spirit too - albeit one in the UK Grin
I completely agree.
We had a massive problem here in the UK last summer with teaching unions actively telling their members not to engage with the Government to re-open schools. The unions openly celebrated when only a few year groups went back last June rather than all the children. It was infuriating and outrageous. Schools did always stay open for keyworker kids though so that is something.
IMO children's welfare was neglected here in the UK to protect older mostly retired people and no doubt Aus will go down this same road, but I really hope not.

sashagabadon · 18/08/2021 10:01

heard on the news this morning that the Scottish Government would like to keep for ever some of the emergency powers they granted themselves last year. I haven't looked at the details but that is alarming to me. It's misson creep and not want the public agreed to.

TattyDevine · 18/08/2021 10:42

I totally agree about the points about making the police life easier etc and the amount of police presence and emergency powers etc

But that's what a zero Covid policy gets ya. Not actual zero Covid, but a whole host of other problems...

bluetongue · 18/08/2021 10:57

@AllHailTheGreatGoddess

Just occupying the vast sensible (and mostly silent) middle Ozgirl75.

I can see the issue (highly transmissible novel virus), but am not willing to sacrifice everything to control it.

It is unpalatable but sooner or later Australians will realise there is an acceptable number of sickness and death. Could be me, could be someone I love, but this is simply unsustainable.

We just need to be careful what we give up.

Another kindred sprinting reporting in Smile

Every time I say we need to live with Covid someone will say ‘what if it’s one of your loved ones die?’ How selfish would it be of me to expect the whole country to continue with zero Covid and all the associated damage it causes just so my family is safe once the vaccine is rolled out? My parents are in their 70’s. They’re not going to live forever. My grandfather died recently at 98. His death was not a tragedy. He’d come to the end of his life and he was tired of living.

I’m actually pretty confident that Australia will reach the 80% vaccinated rate. People here have high rates of vaccination and most of us are now either scared of getting sick or just plain over living like this. What I’m not hopeful about is the premiers giving up their powers. Some have already admitted that lockdowns will continue over 80% and borders will stay closed.

It pains me to say it but I’m on Scott Morrison’s side with the reopening plan.

sashagabadon · 18/08/2021 10:58

Choice lines
“The majority have learned to love Big Brother”
And
“The economist has noted that the only countries persisting with a Covid elimination strategy are islands and dictatorships. We are now both”

bluetongue · 18/08/2021 11:00

Forgot to say, I have a friend now locked out of her home state of Western Australia. She has no idea when she can return.Meanwhile, want to fly in from India or Indonesia? No worries. It disgusts me Angry

TattyDevine · 18/08/2021 11:03

There is some Stockholm syndrome going on there. Not with everybody obviously.

Like I said before I think once you jump on the zero Covid carousel how do you get everyone to jump off whilst convincing them it's not dangerous to do so?

My brother in WA has spoken of the ridiculous amount of civil liberties he's given up. He has to scan a QR code to go to work. But get this. He has to scan a separate QR code to go to the toilet at work...

bluetongue · 18/08/2021 11:09

@TattyDevine

There is some Stockholm syndrome going on there. Not with everybody obviously.

Like I said before I think once you jump on the zero Covid carousel how do you get everyone to jump off whilst convincing them it's not dangerous to do so?

My brother in WA has spoken of the ridiculous amount of civil liberties he's given up. He has to scan a QR code to go to work. But get this. He has to scan a separate QR code to go to the toilet at work...

How is it that some of us can see the madness while others cheer for every freedom that is taken away?

I won’t join an unauthorised protest organised by Qanon types but if there was an authorised one run by more sensible types then I’d be there. Then again protesting is pretty much banned theses days too ...

Ozgirl75 · 18/08/2021 11:16

It’s difficult because I don’t want to be lumped in with the anti vaxx, right wing nut jobs. I am a huge fan of vaccines, and am perfectly accepting of measures that do what they can to slow the spread of the virus, whilst allowing people to live as freely as possible.
For example, I was supportive of borders closing initially - however I am now a fan of home quarantine for vaccinated people. As light a touch as possible should be the way to proceed.
At heart I am a libertarian but unfortunately that seems to lump us in with the “all rights no responsibilities” people, which I’m definitely not. I guess I’m more of a John Stewart Mill liberal.
If I lived in WA though I would probably have moved back to the U.K. by now.

DetMcNulty · 18/08/2021 11:29

@TattyDevine

There is some Stockholm syndrome going on there. Not with everybody obviously.

Like I said before I think once you jump on the zero Covid carousel how do you get everyone to jump off whilst convincing them it's not dangerous to do so?

My brother in WA has spoken of the ridiculous amount of civil liberties he's given up. He has to scan a QR code to go to work. But get this. He has to scan a separate QR code to go to the toilet at work...

That crazy, I don't know anyone who bothers with QR codes, and I work in oil and gas which goes into HSE overdrive sometimes. It must be his company enforcing that, it's really not the norm here at all.
AllHailTheGreatGoddess · 18/08/2021 11:35

Mills was always one of my favourites.

They have my compliance until the populace has been offered a vaccine, after that no more.

They can fuck off with playgrounds though. My DS11 is being a real trooper about this, but we go to the playground everyday and he kicks a ball around with his mates. If this increases the spread. So be it.

I have surprised myself with how libertarian I am. Guess I didn't know what I had until someone tried to take it away.

TattyDevine · 18/08/2021 11:54

I think some of WA have associated that with the success they have had and the other freedoms they enjoy

Particularly if you don't have to travel out the state

But my brother worries when he will see my parents in VIC as much as I do

Ozgirl75 · 18/08/2021 12:27

I always thought I was quite a rule follower actually - we’re quite a “law” family as I am a lawyer and my DH was in the army, but if anything that makes me see how important it is that laws and rules come with reason and scrutiny.

Kingstonmumof1 · 18/08/2021 13:17

@TattyDevine my family member was telling me there are QR codes on the entrance to the public toilets in his local park Shock

TattyDevine · 18/08/2021 13:18

It probably is @DetMcNulty

It's one of the very first industries to be fecked for a very long time of Covid takes hold so it's probably in their interests (WASO so performing arts)

TattyDevine · 18/08/2021 13:21

[quote Kingstonmumof1]@TattyDevine my family member was telling me there are QR codes on the entrance to the public toilets in his local park Shock[/quote]
Distopian as that sounds, if someone drops a log minutes before you go in there, there could be quite a lot of Covid particles about as there's quite a large viral load in shit I'm told. Whether or not it transmits if you exhale that glorious bouquet is beyond my scientific knowledge - it might just be good old fashioned lung aerosols 😆