Australia in a mess - NZ with a plan

[StartupRepair]

More than half of Australia is in lockdown now, sparked (imo) by the intransigence of the NSW Premier who ignored all warnings about Delta. Our procurement of and messaging around vaccines has been dangerously incompetent.
It all feels a bit bleak today. At least NZ seems to have a plan.

Exactly. When the rules are totally out of proportion, people will stop bothering to follow them. He looks embarrassing and ridiculous. Anyone who was breaking the rules before now just has to make sure they’re hidden away inside. Lunacy. Poor Melburnians. So much for the short sharp lockdown.

Dan Andrews doesn’t make his restrictions based on what works though, he makes them on what looks “strict”. Curfews and closing playgrounds are totally disproportional to the risk of spreading the virus in those situations.

Are laws that cannot be enforced really laws at all? Bentham, Austin et al.

Watch compliance continue to fall with such a ridiculous set of rules - my WhatsApp has been lit up this afternoon with previously law abiding friends throwing in the towel and organising lunch time play dates at each other’s houses.

I think this was inevitable. Australians have mostly been very forbearing thus far, but people can only stand so much.

@newstart1234

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/four-newborns-die-after-being-denied-heart-surgery-due-to-covid-19-travel-restrictions/ar-BB1agbcI

This is the heart surgery story, albeit taken from last year. There is nothing that’s changed that indicates this isn’t still going on.

I think it’s important to have a ‘league table’. Both covid and anti covid measures are extremely damaging and it’s important to quantify how each country has done in which areas in order to learn for the future. Hopefully by comparing the responses (of course taking into account inherent differences) we can see which measures were most effective and least disruptive and use them in future.

I'm not really understanding what has happened in that story as it says that the doctors could have sent the babies to Melbourne - the ' problem' was they would have to quarantine when they came back to Adelaide. Which is not a reason not to send them for lifesaving treatment. So they weren't stopped from crossing the borders at all. And they could also have been sent to Sydney as well. So it's tragic for the babies and their families, but it wasn't a result of border restrictions. Somebody is trying to make political capital out of their grief, I fear.

It's very important to look at rates of spread and the impact of different strategies around the world. However, a league table of countries is far too simplistic! It is not going to be helpful. Each country has such different contexts in terms of underlying health of the population, the timing of the virus arriving on shore, geographical concerns. Also, how are you going to weigh the deaths against the lockdown? How many deaths = one week of lockdown?

I really think this kind of competitive narrative is completely unhelpful. Let's just work together to try to work out the best way to tackle it next time there's a pandemic.

I’ve only ever got the flu shot once (am double jabbed for Covid though).

Please, please do get it this year though. All countries are probably headed for really bad flu seasons this year (including possibly weird out-of-season outbreaks) due to flu being absent for 18mo, causing everyone's immunity levels to be low.

One big thing everyone can do (not just in Oz but everywhere) is get the flu shot as soon as it's offered!

@Ozgirl75

Exactly. When the rules are totally out of proportion, people will stop bothering to follow them. He looks embarrassing and ridiculous. Anyone who was breaking the rules before now just has to make sure they’re hidden away inside. Lunacy. Poor Melburnians. So much for the short sharp lockdown.

The worst thing is plenty of people are loving it and begging to be locked down harder.

Gladys said today that even after 80% are vaccinated they still want to keep cases as low as possible and we’ll still have masks, distancing and lockdowns if needed ‘as long as Delta is in the world’. Meanwhile, other countries have started making people pay for tests and will stop caring about numbers. It’s fucking insane.

If the government actually keeps restricting us after the 80% target I will seriously consider joining a protest. And I don’t normally do protests.

As a vaccinated person I will refuse to have my freedoms curtailed to protect those who refuse to protect themselves.

@bluetongue

If the government actually keeps restricting us after the 80% target I will seriously consider joining a protest. And I don’t normally do protests.

Me too, and I suspect the largely silent, law abiding majority.

I absolutely agree with you @bluetongue. After 80% are vaccinated I don’t mind wearing a mask inside and keeping distanced, but I expect my children to get an education and to be allowed as normal and life as possible. I would also protest at any further lockdowns.
I’m in a very large LGA in the north of Sydney and our Facebook page is full of people saying “how come we can travel within the LGA, we should be restricted further” and I’m just astounded that people would want MORE restrictions! We have (I think) one active case in the whole are at the moment! Personally I think we should be allowed to go wherever we like if we’re fully vaccinated and avoid the hot spot zones.

I’m not competitor in the slightest disco, I only used league table in response to your previous post. Maybe you misunderstood me? It can easily happen in online discussions. My response I wrote just now has been deleted and cba to write it again. Needless to say, I hope Australia and Australians are returned to as near to the old normal as soon as possible 🙂

Right now we are at 20% vaccinated and 8% for some Aboriginal communities, so talking about how entitled we can be at 80% is not really relevant to the current shitstorm.

@StartupRepair

Looming health disaster for First Nations. www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-14/covid-indigenous-vaccinations-nsw-regional-lockdown/100377960 Hope this works. Outlining the vulnerability of Aboriginal remote communities.

Why on earth is that healthcare worker not in a mask? Do you guys not use masks at all, even to protect the elderly?

That photo is from Northern Territory, who have had no cases up until today ( and only 1 now). They're doing ok when it comes to indigenous vaccination, there's a couple of communities near Alice Springs almost 100% vexed. There's also been some schemes to pay them which have been successful.

For those wondering what is happening with our Indigenous communities in rural and remote Australia.

www.flyingdoctor.org.au/news/covid-19-responding-need/

as long as the koalas ,wombats and lovely kangaroos are still ok and any in rescues are still being looked after thats all that matters

That's all that matters? Really?

Astonishing

Wow 😲😲

@TattyDevine

Astonishing

If he has delta, that means it's now moved from maskless on the streets to...in the prisons.

Brill.

Curfews and distance restrictions and masks outside and closing playgrounds and taping off playgrounds and park benches are all useless.

What works is vaccination. My understanding is that Australians won't have the AZ vaccine. Well I know which I prefer out of perpetual lockdown and a tiny risk of getting a clot which is now treatable.

So I read that the 80% vaccination threshold for freedom to travel/no lockdowns etc is predicated on starting with just 30 community cases.

Seems like Australia will continue to pursue elimination (or extreme suppression) for the indefinite future.

@igelkott2021

Curfews and distance restrictions and masks outside and closing playgrounds and taping off playgrounds and park benches are all useless.

What works is vaccination. My understanding is that Australians won't have the AZ vaccine. Well I know which I prefer out of perpetual lockdown and a tiny risk of getting a clot which is now treatable.

But they only work when enough people have been vaccinated and then its no magic bullet. There are still going to be significant problems with the Delta variant.

Auatrailian states have no choice but to lockdown. NsW has been in lockdown for weeks now and cases are still growing. I know people on here will moan that it's not hard enough - well even the hardest of lockdowns will probably not enable to cases to get back to 0.

They are vaccinating and vaccinating fast now. Questions do need to be asked about all the AZ shit before hand. That has inevitably made the situation more shit than it needed to be.

But I don't see what the alternative is now. You have a population with low immunity - you can't let it rip. And the fact that R is over 1 with lockdown is really pretty horrific.

I should also add that what the politicians are saying now is not what they will necessarily be saying in a few months time. Zero Covid is like a drug. Many people have become addicted to that idea and they need to be slowly weaned off it.

You can see the change in the UK. One of the biggest supporters of the zero covid approach is now accepting we need to live with it.

The difference between UK / Aus - we in the UK are at a stage (after a long hard slog) where that may be possible now. That's not the case in Austrailia.

It’s going to be a hard few weeks / months with lockdown but it will get better as vaccines are used.

@Wakeupin2022

I should also add that what the politicians are saying now is not what they will necessarily be saying in a few months time. Zero Covid is like a drug. Many people have become addicted to that idea and they need to be slowly weaned off it.

You can see the change in the UK. One of the biggest supporters of the zero covid approach is now accepting we need to live with it.

The difference between UK / Aus - we in the UK are at a stage (after a long hard slog) where that may be possible now. That's not the case in Austrailia.

Yeah, but I see no signs at all that Australia’s political leadership is attempting to even begin the process of weaning the populace off zero covid. If anything it feels like they’re doubling down. Scott Morrison has read the election tea-leaves and knows there’s limited appetite for living with C19. I don’t expect any substantive shift in attitude from Australia’s political class until after the next election.