Are they looking into vaccinating young children?

[SparklesandGold]

Like babies, toddlers, kids and adolescents?

Surely if this went ahead they could give the vaccines out in schools to speed it up?

@TheVanguardSix

It's not "trial vaccine"

What do you think we're all taking part in then?

They are in phase three trials until 2023

It amazes me that the majority of people I talk to don't know this or ignore this fact to the point of choosing not to know. We are all part of an ongoing trial.

What do you think we're all taking part in then? we are all part of an ongoing trial You are not in a clinical trial unless you've specifically enrolled yourself in. You're not automatically in one just because you've been vaccinated.

They are in phase three trials until 2023. It amazes me that the majority of people I talk to don't know this or ignore this fact to the point of choosing not to know.
Nope, I'm not ignorant to this or choosing to ignore anything, it's just a classic distortion of the truth that that has been put forward and spread on SM.

The phase III clinical trials required for vaccine licensing and approval have been completed. See for example Pfizer: www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine

Yes, as per standard protocol, there are additional phase III trials going on in various patient subgroups. This is not unusual or special to the coronavirus vaccines. If you have ever taken a recently approved drug or vaccine such as that for HPV, there will have been ongoing phase III trials.

The trouble is, this phrase is designed to cause fear (phase III trials are going on! we don't know if they're safe!) when it is just a standard practise and does not mean the drug/vaccine is not safe for rollout - it would not have been approved. This is particularly reassuring for vaccines, as there is not a plausible mechanism for side effects that emerge after a long time, in the same way there could be for a drug you continue to take years.

For example, I am currently taking a fairly commonly prescribed drug that was licensed 9 years ago.

There are currently ongoing phase III trials. These include the efficacy of the drug in immunocompromised people, and a 10 year follow up of patients.

This does not mean it is a "trial drug", it is commonly taken without these kinds of rumours and no one is subjecting it to the same level of scrutiny as the vaccine roll out.

Re being part of a trial, the whole thing is uncertain - vaccine seems a lot safer than covid though so I’m going with that.

@wondersun

Re being part of a trial, the whole thing is uncertain - vaccine seems a lot safer than covid though so I’m going with that.

Well quite, that's the other aspect, that equally that long term effects of coronavirus infection on child development are unknown, and there is far more epidemiological evidence for viruses causing long term complications than there is for vaccination. The association between coronavirus infection and increased risk of type 1 diabetes mellitus is already being examined in children due to increased prevalence.

It's something that's not as clear-cut as vaccination for adults as children are at much lower risk, but the debate needs to be had with facts rather than misinformation, and claims that it's a "trial vaccine" don't help anyone make that decision.

I'll be happy for my dc to be vaccinated.

My 11yo ds was poorly 15 months ago with a virus that was almost certainly Covid. He had a high temp, breathing difficulties and a cough ( we tested but due to issues the test was not conducted properly and the hospital would not help do a test on him as they were only testing admitted patients and they told us to take him home after 5 hours in A&E).

I do not want my dc to go through that again. It was horrendous.

I've had my kids vaxxed with everything possible, including chicken pox. I've had the first vaccine despite severe allergies.
But no way would I vaccinate them for covid. Step too far.

“I've had my kids vaxxed with everything possible, including chicken pox. I've had the first vaccine despite severe allergies.
But no way would I vaccinate them for covid. Step too far.“

CordeliasPencil do you mind me asking, is that because you don’t think COVID is a particular risk to them rather than any particular concerns about the clinical trials and regulator’s approval process? Or perhaps because you feel we will be able to control the virus sufficiently to live with it without the need for vaccinating children?

@everythingthelighttouches

“I've had my kids vaxxed with everything possible, including chicken pox. I've had the first vaccine despite severe allergies. But no way would I vaccinate them for covid. Step too far.“

CordeliasPencil do you mind me asking, is that because you don’t think COVID is a particular risk to them rather than any particular concerns about the clinical trials and regulator’s approval process? Or perhaps because you feel we will be able to control the virus sufficiently to live with it without the need for vaccinating children?

I don't think it's a risk to them and there's no way I'm vaccinating my children with something that's still in trial phase. Which this is. When it's not then maybe but mostly it's just not necessary now. And I'm a CEV not fully vaccinated (yet) teacher. But no I don't think it's necessary

@everythingthelighttouches

“I've had my kids vaxxed with everything possible, including chicken pox. I've had the first vaccine despite severe allergies. But no way would I vaccinate them for covid. Step too far.“

CordeliasPencil do you mind me asking, is that because you don’t think COVID is a particular risk to them rather than any particular concerns about the clinical trials and regulator’s approval process? Or perhaps because you feel we will be able to control the virus sufficiently to live with it without the need for vaccinating children?

Sorry it would probably have been helpful for me to add that we got thr chicken pox vax done because both of my children were born immunosuppressed (it lessened overtime as the drugs wore off ) because i was taking multiple immunosuppressants when pregnant. Also one of them was born very premature. So we were advised to get chicken pox vax as it would maybe not be a mild illness for them at that point (age 1 - as soon as you can get that particular vaccine).

Wanted to add that as it may have seemed a bit odd that I'm claiming covid isn't a risk to kids but yet I vaccinated against another usually mild illness

@CarrieBlue

It would be good to have the choice for my children rather than the opportunity being denied to them by others who don’t reckon their children need it (when they would always have the option not to vaccinate their children). I hope the vaccine will be available soon to everyone who would like to have it.

The choice isn’t being denied to them by those who think their child doesn’t need it , they’re not the one making the decision. The choice is being denied to them by the JCVI, whose job it is to weigh up the evidence and make the decision.

@CordeliasPencil

it sounds like you’ve had all sorts of concerns for yours and their health, which most are lucky not to have gone through. So I’m particularly interested in your opinion.

Am I right that the reason you wouldn’t get them vaccinated against covid is because you don’t think they would be particularly ill from covid itself? Rather than some posters who think the vaccine is still in trials (which it isn’t at all, not for the primary aim of the trials)?

The chicken pox vaccine was the bit that made me curious because I also paid for my DS8 to have that privately for similar reasons.

He was born extremely prematurely and has had all sorts of health problems (crap immunity) and operations up until school age. He was one of the few kids in the county that got the extremely expensive RSV immunoglobulins every month through winter for the first 3 years.

Amongst many other things, he got rotavirus when he was younger and what is (or was because there is now a vaccine in the U.K.) a nasty D&V for most kids ended up getting into his central nervous system and giving him encephalitis, which was awful and potentially very serious indeed.

I know he is a lot physically stronger now and should be fine if he gets Covid now. but I still have a nagging feeling that if he got covid, he might be one of the rare cases that ended up poorly, we still don’t understand the disease very well at all.

So while I haven’t lost any sleep about him catching covid this does make me want to give him the vaccine if it is ever recommended to children his age.

@CordeliasPencil

Sorry, I’ve only just seen your first reply now

(I can see you don’t think it’s a risk and you think it is being trialled)

I just wanted to clarify on trials.

The work being done on the main trials now is not for the decision on whether we (adults could have it or not). That work is concluded and has been rigorously assessed by multiple regulators. There are remaining secondary endpoints which continue to gather data (as with all drugs, sometimes for years after licensing).

Volunteers are being recruited and trials ongoing for children and are expected to conclude and deliver data to the regulators in autumn/winter.

So the regulators will only give us the opportunity to vaccinate children when the appropriate data has been collected anyway. At that point, it won’t still “be in trials” in the way some posters are describing.

Correct, when it is no longer in trials for children, it will no longer be in trials for children.

It is currently in trials for children.

@BillieSpain

Correct, when it is no longer in trials for children, it will no longer be in trials for children.

It is currently in trials for children.

The pfizer vaccine has been authorised for use in people over 12 (i.e., including children above this age). The appropriate trials and data have been collected to allow this to happen.

This is why many countries in Europe and the US have rolled it out to over 12s.

I don't think anyone is suggesting offering in to children under this age until it has been authorised, unless in very specific medical scenarios.

The OP was asking this exact question.

@BillieSpain

The OP was asking this exact question.

But many posters, including yourself @BillieSpain have been referring to it as a "trial jab" without robust testing for children of all ages.

Your post from this morning:

Totally agree. My 13 DD will not be having it.

There are no proper trials that have been done on this.

I wonder who volunteers their child for these trials? It's not something I would do.

DS is 13 and has complex neuro disabilities. He's not having the jab, he had covid around Easter time. His was a mild case similar to a cold. None of us caught it which surprised me.
Im just not sure about the jab for children. DH & I have both been vaxxed.

[quote everythingthelighttouches]@CordeliasPencil

Sorry, I’ve only just seen your first reply now

(I can see you don’t think it’s a risk and you think it is being trialled)

I just wanted to clarify on trials.

The work being done on the main trials now is not for the decision on whether we (adults could have it or not). That work is concluded and has been rigorously assessed by multiple regulators. There are remaining secondary endpoints which continue to gather data (as with all drugs, sometimes for years after licensing).

Volunteers are being recruited and trials ongoing for children and are expected to conclude and deliver data to the regulators in autumn/winter.

So the regulators will only give us the opportunity to vaccinate children when the appropriate data has been collected anyway. At that point, it won’t still “be in trials” in the way some posters are describing.[/quote]
I know, I understand. I have a lot of medical issues and have been either part of some trials myself, or have been given drugs which are still in stage 3 of trials OR drugs which have been approved fully for another illness but are off lable for what I'm taking it for.

At the moment the vaccines aren't approved for children that are the age of mine so no, I wouldn't give them it. I would also want them to be fully approved through all trial phases for children.

[quote everythingthelighttouches]**@CordeliasPencil

it sounds like you’ve had all sorts of concerns for yours and their health, which most are lucky not to have gone through. So I’m particularly interested in your opinion.

Am I right that the reason you wouldn’t get them vaccinated against covid is because you don’t think they would be particularly ill from covid itself? Rather than some posters who think the vaccine is still in trials (which it isn’t at all, not for the primary aim of the trials)?

The chicken pox vaccine was the bit that made me curious because I also paid for my DS8 to have that privately for similar reasons.

He was born extremely prematurely and has had all sorts of health problems (crap immunity) and operations up until school age. He was one of the few kids in the county that got the extremely expensive RSV immunoglobulins every month through winter for the first 3 years.

Amongst many other things, he got rotavirus when he was younger and what is (or was because there is now a vaccine in the U.K.) a nasty D&V for most kids ended up getting into his central nervous system and giving him encephalitis, which was awful and potentially very serious indeed.

I know he is a lot physically stronger now and should be fine if he gets Covid now. but I still have a nagging feeling that if he got covid, he might be one of the rare cases that ended up poorly, we still don’t understand the disease very well at all.

So while I haven’t lost any sleep about him catching covid this does make me want to give him the vaccine if it is ever recommended to children his age.[/quote]
I'm a bit confused and not totally sure if I've answered what you wanted to know or not! Please let me know if I haven't and I'll try again.

Again, correct, I was agreeing with a poster who had the same aged daughter and was worried about lack of information/trials to do with the vaccine and fertlity in young teenaged girls.

But you seem to be on a bit of a mission to misquote and twist to support your argument that the vaccine is fully trialled and safe. Again, you have your opinion, I have mine. Others have theirs.

In Spain, not so many 12/13/14 years olds are taking this up btw. They have a few years to wait and see.

@BillieSpain

Again, correct, I was agreeing with a poster who had the same aged daughter and was worried about lack of information/trials to do with the vaccine and fertlity in young teenaged girls.

But you seem to be on a bit of a mission to misquote and twist to support your argument that the vaccine is fully trialled and safe. Again, you have your opinion, I have mine. Others have theirs.

In Spain, not so many 12/13/14 years olds are taking this up btw. They have a few years to wait and see.

I am not on any kind of mission beyond wanting thinking people should be able to make this decision based on accurate information rather than the misinformation that is rife on here and SM.

As I have said, for over 12s the vaccine has been approved with all primary safety endpoints achieved. This is not an argument that everyone over that age should have it, but it is important to be clear that is has been completed.

The point that in Spain (and other countries) a certain percentage of young people are choosing to have or not have it is neither here nor there. It doesn't change the fact that these trials have in fact been completed and the vaccine is authorised.

I think you are really missing the point many are trying to make about their concerns with this vaccine for young children and teens. About risk versus benefit.

This is fine. Nobody cares what anyone else thinks, it is interesting, that is all.

But you are sure so that is good. As you say, there is much misinformation on here. It is for nobody to claim they know more or less, it is for opinion and discussion.

I have done my own research, thoroughly. On here, I am giving my opinion/my concerns, as a mother of a 13 year old daughter.

I amm dismayed at how womens health in general is so badly researched from teen to menopause, so keep my eye on it as far as COVID goes.

Delayed/missing periods?

nah, that's nothing ...

It's totally an individual choice. Our opinions are all shaped by our experiences. My family members that have had Covid (myself included) have reacted badly to it. So for me I want my children vaccinated but maybe if I hadn't had a nasty dose of Covid my opinion would be different.

@BillieSpain

Please point to any of my posts where I have said I am "so sure it is good" or indeed even that I think children under 12 or in the 12-15 age bracket should be offered it or take it up?

Foliage, I really have got all I wanted out of this thread.

I really don't care what you do or don't think, in the nicest possible way. You are, as we all are, entitled to whatever you decide you think.

Have a good evening.

(Never goes on another covid thread again)