Self Isolation Rule Changes 16th August for + people?

[WTFIsTheAnswerToThis]

If anyone knows the answer to this I would be very grateful as I can't find this specific circumstance anywhere on the gov website etc!

DD is 18 and has had her first vaccination end of June and was booked in for her second. In the meantime she felt unwell and tested positive on Fri 6th Aug. (Her second vaccination date is now delayed to 3rd September, the earliest date she is eligible for jab after a + result) As a household we know we have to isolate until 16th August.

In the meantime I have felt fucking horrendous unwell and did a PCR yesterday. I'm waiting for results but had same symptoms as DD and + LFT so looking likely.

If + I know I would have to SI for further 10 days after first symptoms (so 20th Aug). I also know the rule changes on 16th August mean double jabbed household members (at least two weeks after second jab) could still end close contact self isolation on 16th August even if I am positive.

But can DD end her self isolation still on 16th as she is not double jabbed? Or does she have to do a full isolation period as a close contact of a positive person ie me as she isn't double jabbed? Even though she has literally just had Covid?

I can see in the rules there is a leeway period of 6 months after 18th birthday to allow them time to get jabs. (DD is 18 and 8 months but couldn't get an earlier date for her first jab ) But there is nothing about half jabbed 18 year olds who have just had bloody Covid.

I may well be missing some obvious answer but can't seem to find it and 119 were fucking useless when I rang them earlier. My head is pounding and I can't seem to think clearly and DD can't find a straight answer either.

Any advice gratefully received!

And I don't know why I posted this at 5am. I shall commit the awful MN faux pas and bump my own thread later

I'm not posting it in AIBU "for traffic" despite being tempted to (under the title "AIBU to think everything is so fucking complicated and changes all the time?") as I definitely don't feel robust enough for AIBU and know I am not BU unreasonable anyway ...

119 should have been able to answer this as it’s clear in the rules:

If another household member tests positive within the first positive person’s isolation period, they (the first positive person) can come out of isolation as planned, so after ten days - as long as they don’t still have a temp or sickness.

The 16th rule changes do not affect things for someone who has actually tested positive anyway, just for household members

See the chart here (from 2020 so ignore what the “no symptoms” household members have to do from 16th):

www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-54239922.amp

There’s always someone awake....

Provided she isn’t still unwell, her isolation should end on the 16th because she tested positive. She shouldn’t have to isolate again for three (?) months, even if she wasn’t jabbed at all unless she develops new symptoms. Will try and find guidance to send you.

Sorry you are poorly. I think the brain fog is part of Covid.

Jangly has beaten me to it with guidance!

Some good legal guidance with examples (although not for household members, but it is the same as for other close contacts) here

www.hilldickinson.com/insights/articles/covid-19-self-isolation-faqs-16-august-2021

Oh thank you awake people! That graph is very useful @JanglyBeads (as its pictures not words  )

DD will be happy to be released next week. What would happen in different circumstances, if she was a close contact again but has had CV previously? @Gunpowder if you can find your link that would be great as the three month thing would make sense.

The bloody cats are up now and think it's breakfast time...

See the NHS site says there is no exemption to self isolation even if you have had CV previously! Maybe that is also changing on the 16th.

Why is everything so complicated? There seems to be a grey area of "people who aren't double jabbed but aren't exempt, and have already had CV"

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/symptoms/what-to-do-if-you-get-symptoms-again/

Hi OP. I have a similar thing. DS, 20, was about to have jab 2 when covid struck. He was first in household but mucked up test and trace call so ended up with longest isolation! He will now have to wait for second jab, of course.

The annoying thing about whole house covid is that T and T open a new case for every new person and so people keep being told different dates. But, essentially people stick to the first SI date - or their own date of course, if they get covid. So hubby and 17 year old DS2 got released a few days ago, even though I tested positive in that time.

It's complicated.

Not sure how DS1 goes about proving he is not double vacced because covid.

"You probably have some immunity to the virus but it's not clear how long it lasts"

Helpful.

I do realise there will be "unknowns" like this as it's a novel virus. But surely the rules should be clear even in circumstances where there may be grey areas medically etc.

Do meant to say.. your DD ends her SI on 16th, regardless of jabbing status because it's her 10 days up.

Thank you @Piggywaspushed. How are you all now?

DD will be so happy to be released but her worry is having to isolate as a close contact again. She is due to start uni on the 10th Sept and doesn't want to jeopardise that...

I

And this is the government website! I know this will be superseded by run free if you're double jabbed on the 16th, but what about people that aren't double jabbed?

It looks to me like you still have to SI despite a previous positive result?

Unfortunately it's not grey either, it is black and white. Previous covid status does not matter. The only people entitled to stop contact isolation on 16th are under 18s and 14 day double jabbed adults. Single jabbed or under 14 day double jabbed adults must continue to isolate if id'd as contacts until they meet the 14 day post double jabbed criteria. Which for your daughter will be 17th September at the earliest. It sucks, but it's the law as it stands at the moment.

Thank you @ColettesEarrings It does look that way, doesn't it?

We have been very careful throughout all this, as I was in the shielding category. DD booked the very first jab appt she could when they became available originally. It's very hard for her that she is still at risk (until the 17th) of having to SI when she is due to start uni on the 10th.

Thanks for asking OP. The 20 year old, single jabbed, who brought covid back to us, was never all that unwell. He had what seemed a heavy cold. 17 year old caught it off him and more noticeably had covid and is still coughing. DH is still clear, and is clinically vulnerable, so fingers remain crossed for a few days. I was very ill, but corner is turned.

www.gov.uk/government/news/self-isolation-removed-for-double-jabbed-close-contacts-from-16-august

Children and young people: those under the age of 18 years. Those turning 18 will be treated in the same way as children until the age of 18 years and 6 months, to allow them time to get vaccinated.

If you test positive within your dd's 10 day isolation period then her SI period doesn't last longer than 10 days (as long as she no longer has a temperature). Its only if there is are symptoms and a positive test after the original 10 day period that SI should start again.

Glad to hear you're on the mend piggy, could I ask how long you felt ill for? I'm on third day and feel awful, but have underlying conditions (hence shielding group) so it may be that.

Thank you all. The six month exemption for 18yrs olds is a joke, considering the very earliest DD could get her first jab here was 18 and 8 months...

I'm on day 9 OP. I still feel unwell but not like I did Day 3- 6.

I was struck by terrible vomiting, though, so that made things worse. Without the vomiting, I wouldn't have been so ill as I got dehydrated.

It's interesting because the legislation and amendments refer only to adults over the age of 18, and children under the age of 18. There is no reference that I can see to those of 18yrs to 18yrs and 6 months. It's an awkward situation if not contained in the legislative documents. I really hope it will be made incontrovertibly, legally, clear.

Is that because it's in the school guidelines colette? School students have always had different rules with stuff. That said, not all people that age are at school or college.

At the risk of derailing slightly, IME the anecdata (and as Piggywas's experience) shows CV still spreads quickly amongst double jabbed household members. The thought of the self isolation totally ending for close contacts of Patient Zero who are likely infected, is scary as - anecdata again - it seems odd the three main symptoms have not been updated at all in the last 18 months. Certainly everyone I know recently who has caught it started with a headache and a sore throat, none of the three main symptoms.

I had a headache Friday onwards but LFTs were clear so I went about my normal business okay this was mostly lying in bed with my cats and only developed loss of taste (and a positive LFT) on Monday. I wonder if I was infectious to my cats Friday onwards.

DD's friends who have caught it also had headache and sore throat prior to coughing/loss of taste so may have been spreading it, some are older and double jabbed but a high proportion of her mates have CV now.

(When I mention LFT results, I do know PCRs are for official three symptoms and DD and I have had them. We did do LFTs twice a week anyway though and we both did one out of interest whilst awaiting PCR results)

I never had a positive LFT! I did 4 . As soon as DS2 started showing symptoms after DS1's cold like illness, we took LFTs. DS2 and me both negative. DS2 then had a positive one the next day. I did three more (just have a stockpile...) over the next day or so, all negative!

I agree that the info on symptoms is woefully and probably deliberately inaccurate. All along, gastric symptoms have been overlooked and yet young people often have those as a first sign.