Freedom day from “other stuff”

[brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr]

Many people were very excited by - and crying out for - the prospect of normality. Of removing masks and reducing distancing. Of dining out, nightclubs, holidays. Family visits, theatre - without needing to jump through so many hoops.

Why don’t we see the same response in other parts of life. Where the crazy hoops we jump through are there to mitigate an even smaller risk than covid ?

Take for example transport security. When will we be allowed to carry full bottles of liquids through onto aircraft again ? When will we be able to board an aircraft without being bodyscanned ? When will we get to go on a train without being urged to “see it, say it, sorted ?” every few
minutes ?

Those who were vehemently opposed to covid restrictions, vaccines and masks - will you march to prevent people poking around in your bags at concerts ?

Seeing my mother and putting shampoo are in a little bag are not actually comparable the fact so many don’t get that is why the difficulties of long term lock down have been so underestimated by those on her and many scientists. We literally cannot continue as a human race if we stay two meters away from all humans we don’t live with. My parents met at uni, got married had kids I literally would be alive if there had been an insistence they stayed two meters apart. But yes compare it all to taking a bottle of water on a plan if it helps you feel smug!

I wouldn’t call it smug. Just confusing - that for the last 20 years we’re subject to extraordinary measures when travelling. There are armed police at railway stations - literally men with powerful automatic guns in civil public spaces. Surely that is unnecessary and should also have an end too at some point ? Airport and airline staff, frequent business travelers, those with family abroad who need to see each other - could benefit hugely from being able to arrive later at the airport and not have to faff around taking shoes off and drinking their own flippin’ breast milk !

the difficulties of long term lock down have been so underestimated by those on her and many scientists. We literally cannot continue as a human race if we stay two meters away from all humans we don’t live with

Exactly many people including scientists miss point of life.

What a dumb comparison. Most people only travel by air a few times a year, if that. Having to go throughh a bodyscanner or put your cosmetics and shower gell into dinky 100ml containers doesn't compare to not being able to see your family, or to your business going bust because you had to reduce your income by 50% due to social distancing.

Try harder OP.

I kind of get your point. A lot of these safety measures were brought in as part of the ‘war on terror’ but they’ve just kind of stayed. It just ‘creeps’ into what we perceive as normal. I suppose the danger here is that we will start to think it’s perfectly normal and acceptable to need a ‘health pass’ to enter bars/restaurants/tourist attractions even when the risk of COVID has pretty much disappeared.

Just confusing - that for the last 20 years we’re subject to extraordinary measures when travelling

Do you consider having to throw out your water bottle before going through security, or possibly being asked to stand in a bodyscanner to be 'extraordinary measures'? I'd call them minor inconveniences, ones which your average person will only experience maybe once or twice a year.

Can hardly be compared to the life changing nature of pandemic restrictions.

I agree I am very scared of having to show a health pass to enter a cafe etc which is happening in France !!!!! I just hope ppl stand up to this

@screwcovid

I agree I am very scared of having to show a health pass to enter a cafe etc which is happening in France !!!!! I just hope ppl stand up to this

I hope enough people do. Maybe when people need to have boosters every 6,5,4,3 months to keep their pass up to date they’ll realise it’s not such a great idea.

the difficulties of long term lock down have been so underestimated by those on her and many scientists. We literally cannot continue as a human race if we stay two meters away from all humans we don’t live with

This needs repeating again and again and again.

This needs repeating again and again and again.

Absolutely without life we are as good as dead.

I think it's a really valid comparison. Particularly when you understand that the reason for the continued security measures in airports is because airport authorities have realised they are a useful way of ensuring crowd control as well as ensuring we spend as much time and money as possible in the terminal area. If there is a similar economic bonus to retaining covid restrictions then they will stay - regardless of the health arguments.

"A lot of these safety measures were brought in as part of the ‘war on terror’ but they’ve just kind of stayed"

Has terrorism ended, when did that happen? I welcome the police with 'big guns' at Christmas markets. If more vigilance had been used the French tragedy wouldn't have happened. It's too soon after the Manchester bombing for people to just walk into concerts. Airport and train security is a reasonable response to events. Terrorism isn't a natural threat that we have to learn to live with. Viruses, disease etc are. The RSPCA campaigned and won so a new law about letting animals display behaviour according to their specific species. Getting rid of restrictions does the same for humans.

I live in Germany where passes have been compulsory since March. No country made a big deal out of it in the news until France imposed it, and it really is not an issue. Restaurants, retail, hotels, hairdressers, concerts… you don’t get in without a pass. People just do it and have been for months, together with compulsory FFP2 mask wearing which you CANNOT declare yourself exempt from. It’s a small price to pay for ‘normality’ and not one I can get fussed about.

I agree we cannot stay away from family and friends forever, we cannot keep theatres and other businesses closed forever. Those restrictions need to go.

Funnily enough, I’m (pre-Covid) a frequent flyer. 50-60 flights a year. Again, It really isn’t an issue putting your liquids in a bag for security. It isn’t an issue going through passport control or body scans. The same way - putting a mask on isn’t that much of an issue when you compare it to the other restrictions. It’s not time consuming, it doesn’t take much extra effort, it’s just part of the process.

That’s why people aren’t advocating ‘travel freedom’, because it really isn’t an issue. Frequent travellers are used to packing their liquids in less than 2 minutes in the correct way, and we’re actually the ones who get annoyed at holiday-makers who get to security without having read what the rules are, and block the line for 20 minutes whilst them and their 3 children proceed to empty their bags of the countless liquids they had on them. Thank goodness for Fast Track these days!

There’s a difference between opening businesses and getting rid of all masks and other mild measures. No one undergoes a full INTERPOL check before flying, but we’re all restricted on amount of liquids and objects we can bring on board, for everyone’s safety. It doesn’t make much of a difference, the same way putting a mask on when you’re on public transport doesn’t. It’s for everyone’s safety.

Do the passes in Germany include proof of recovery/ proof of negative test as well as proof of vaccination?

It’s a small price to pay for ‘normality’ and not one I can get fussed about.

I really don't think being legally obliged to disclose details of your health status in order to buy food or get your hair cut is a small thing. It's certainly nothing close to 'normaility'.

The same way - putting a mask on isn’t that much of an issue when you compare it to the other restrictions. It’s not time consuming, it doesn’t take much extra effort, it’s just part of the process.

It's a bit disingenuous to say it's all just about the few seconds it takes to put on a mask. It's about having to wear an often uncomfortable face cover for maybe hours a day, and having to 'interact' with people whose faces are covered, thus hiding the cues and signals we often depend on for much of our communication.

Face masks may or may not be neccessary, but having to wear them isn't a minor thing.

compulsory FFP2 mask wearing which you CANNOT declare yourself exempt from.

Most legitimately exempt people have been asking for the same here. There is an exemption in Germany, but it needs a hcp to sign the form.

Because you can bet the day the security measures are lifted, some arse will board a plane with a bomb and a death wish.

HTH

It’s a small price to pay for ‘normality’ and not one I can get fussed about.

As you are someone someone who lives in Germany I'm not many small prices to pay are acceptable, we are less than 35 years from east Germany and before that the Nazis. Demonising one particular group never ends well.

Because you can bet the day the security measures are lifted, some arse will board a plane with a bomb and a death wish.

The majority of the fluid rules are pure theatre nothing else.

The difficulties of restrictions are not good, but have been a lot longer than would have been the case with a responsible reactive government, at least 8 weeks more home schooling, for example.

Unless you are CEV or observing red list quarantine, you have been able to leave the house each day. Lockdown occurred in Italy and Spain, not in the UK.

When terrorists forget how to make liquid bombs, then perhaps we'll be able to take bigger bottles through security

I think some understood where I was coming from - I realise it’s not a 1:1 comparison but it is a case of establishing a legitimate threat exists, taking measures to prevent it happening again / getting worse. At some point the threat has reduced and so should the measures. But as another poster said, I think there are vested interests in maintaining transport security theatre. Some of us do fly an awful lot for work and I wish it wasn’t so, but it’s reality - and the airport grind or the “normality” of submachine guns in a train station are actually weird when you think about it. During the height of the pandemic, when deaths were at their worst we were experiencing a major air disaster equivalent daily, a 9/11 equivalent every couple of days. Yet we are very keen to remove the measures we took to help reduce or prevent that as the risk reduces. I don’t mean to belittle the effect of the pandemic measures, really working through the thought experiment of why we are happy to accept certain changes but not others.

Do the passes in Germany include proof of recovery/ proof of negative test as well as proof of vaccination?

Of course. It’s test, recovery or vaccine. Tests are free though, not like in France…

I really don't think being legally obliged to disclose details of your health status in order to buy food or get your hair cut is a small thing.

You don’t need a pass to buy food. Retail yes - as in buying clothes or electronics or whatever. Supermarkets and pharmacies are accessible to everyone. You also don’t need this pass all the time, right now it’s not required in my state because the rates are low. When the rates were at 150/200, you had to present them everywhere. That was back when only 10% of the population was vaccinated, so we were virtually testing all the time instead. Testing must be done by an HCP too. Home ‘self report’ tests can’t be used legally, because it’s a rubbish process open to abuse.

I too worry about this setting a precedent but I don’t think comparing it with the Nazi - right now - is a valid example of why Germany is implementing these measures. And It’s not only Germany by the way. They’re not demonising anyone by asking for proof of testing or vaccination.

I’m more surprised at the amount of people willing to accept that with local rates of 200/400/700 in the UK, no one has to do anything anymore if they don’t feel like it. The amount of people who aren’t wearing a mask in England (I’m here right now), who literally sit next to you, or disrespectfully speak loudly in front of your face on a packed train, who refuse to put their mask on inside the airport… I don’t see how allowing these people to eg go clubbing without showing they’re negative, and then letting them travel on packed trains with vulnerable people, is in any way safe or accepted. The motto has been ‘protect the vulnerable’ until now. It’s one thing when rates are low and over 12s are jabbed and protected. It’s another thing when rates are sky high and you still let people do what they want, completely disregarding the current situation.

The water in security is a minor inconvenience once a year or so. Masks were everyday.

Some of us do the liquids through security 3-4 times a week. Some people don’t actually need to wear a mask more than once a month… it’s relative.

I was a toddler when 9/11 happened so I’m genuinely curious, what was the public reception to the extra security measures adopted after that? Was there a lot of opposition at first?