Nativity plays

[Provencerose]

I picked up my DD’s school uniform today as she starts school in September and apart from wondering how ‘normal’ her reception year will be, I’m thinking about events where parents are allowed into school. Do you think this will be allowed again or do you think there will be restrictions back in place for things like nativities, productions, fayers, etc?

@Myothercarisalsoshit No one is arguing about the restrictions that were imposed by the government - I think everyone accepts that at the time these were inevitable and that schools were placed in an extremely difficult position trying to navigate often labyrinthine guidelines.

What some people (on this thread and among the parents I know irl) take issue with is the over-zealous interpretation of the guidelines by some schools, the dramatic variations from one school to the next and in particular the assertion by some teachers on here that the school events were in fact ‘better’ when parents were not allowed to attend. Some of us are just pointing out that, if parents are to be kept at arm’s length from some schools longer term, this will inevitably have knock-on effects.

Most parents I know irl have generally taken issue not with the fact of the restrictions, but with the approach of the school in handling them and communicating them to parents. Some schools local to me issued patronising and didactic weekly newsletters full of covid rules and regulations, but gave zero feedback on what the children were learning or how they were doing individually. I’ve read some of them, and in parts they are downright rude, and very dismissive towards both children and parents - for example complaining that there were too many children in school during lockdown, despite acknowledging that the parents of these children were all designated key workers. Others prevented parents who were mask-exempt from entering school grounds at all - one friend of mine with trigeminal neuralgia had to rely on a neighbour to drop off her Year 1 child for several months because she was banned from school premises. A few local schools moved heaven and earth to proceed with the Year 6 school journey and production, but most cancelled every single extra-curricular event.

Will I hear my child read and facilitate homework? Of course I will. But I’m darned if I’m baking cakes and raising money for any school that treats parents as an annoyance to be tolerated at best.

The communication from my DC’s (separate) schools has been brilliant since lockdown-much better than before, their tests/website/newsletter/emails systems are superb and I probably feel more informed than previously!

The primary leavers’ concerts in July were also far better for the children-one parent could come per child, it was outside but partly under a canopy so well-ventilated. Parents normally try to talk all the way through it and bring small children despite being told not to, and it’s difficult to hear what any of the children are saying. You could hear a pin drop with this one-it was brilliant and the children seemed much more relaxed than normal.

I also prefer the Zoom parents evenings as a parent-quick, easy and concise.

I also prefer the Zoom parents evenings as a parent-quick, easy and concise

I’ve no personal experience of these yet as DD is too young, but among friends the verdict seems to be that teachers universally love them, while parents are very much divided between those who think they’re brilliantly efficient and those who were actually quite distressed at being abruptly cut off, not being given the chance to properly talk through issues etc.

A big part of the problem with the latter group seems to be that there was sometimes no alternative route given for being able to flag up and discuss concerns about their child’s progress - no possibility of face to face meetings, schools not responding to emails etc. So they felt effectively ignored.

One friend was informed via a Zoom parents’ evening that their child had become withdrawn in class, alienated from friends, grades dropped dramatically etc - then was unceremoniously cut off with no follow up or means of discussing these issues further.

@TempsPerdu

I agree with you completely while still standing by the bit of my post that you quoted.

The fact that Sports Day was more fun without the parents there doesn’t mean that it will continue that way, or that school staff really want it to continue that way, because we recognise the benefits of having a good relationship with parents and the benefits of parents being able to watch their children at these events. Having no parents there was a one off, and my school is one like those you mention that moved heaven and earth to make sure Y6 could still have their residential and do their performances etc so I don’t feel like teachers should be told they are wrong for anonymously stating the truth in that sports day was better without parents. Sports day is only one event, you can’t assume that a preference for no parents at sports day means that teachers don’t want parents there for all the other variety of things that go on throughout the school year. Of course schools should value the contribution to the school and the community that parents can make.

It sounds like you have personal experience of head teachers that have a bad attitude but it’s always worth looking at the bigger picture. Your example of a school that wouldn’t allowed unmasked parents on the premises may have been a blanket rule that the HT decided to enforce because there were CV staff around that they wanted to protect as much as possible.

One friend was informed via a Zoom parents’ evening that their child had become withdrawn in class, alienated from friends, grades dropped dramatically etc - then was unceremoniously cut off with no follow up or means of discussing these issues further.

Tbf, this could just as easily be a problem with a face to face parents evening. It’s supposed to be a 10 minute update, not designed to properly discuss real issues because there are other parents waiting for their slot. The issue is the lack of follow up, which could happen either way.

@NailsNeedDoing Thanks for such a thoughtful response. I don’t actually think we’re disagreeing on that much; it’s true that I’m aware of many schools locally who had a shocking, often quite callous attitude towards parents during lockdown, and I suppose I also struggle with some of the teachers on MN (though not specifically on this thread) who seem to have an ‘Us’ and ‘Them’ mindset when it comes to parents, and seem to think that their profession should be beyond reproach.

I think what’s missing in some quarters is a sense of pragmatism and compromise. Having taught in primary schools myself I totally get that some parents are highly annoying, and can understand the temptation to want to shut them out wherever possible, but I also understand that they are a vital resource if any school is to function as part of a genuine community.

As much as I usually loathe the idea of schools as a ‘business’, I also think that some of them need to polish up their communication skills and accept that parents are an important stakeholder in the ‘business’ of the school. If, for example, the ban on mask-exempt parents was due to CEV staff then this could very easily have been communicated politely and respectfully, instead of the repeated attempts to patronise and shame the (very few in this case) parents who were unable to wear masks in the playground.

Fingers (and everything else) crossed though that this is all a hypothetical argument and things can be largely normal from this September. As a prospective primary parent, I’m very much hoping that I can at least get to see inside some of the schools we are considering sending DD to next year.

Tbf, this could just as easily be a problem with a face to face parents evening. It’s supposed to be a 10 minute update, not designed to properly discuss real issues because there are other parents waiting for their slot. The issue is the lack of follow up, which could happen either way.

Agree that this could have been the case with the FTF meeting too. But I think another issue is the abruptness and clinical nature of Zoom, and the lack of any of the usual social niceties that you’d get in a FTF discussion - just feels more humane, especially when you’re discussing anything outside a strictly academic remit.

But yes, main issue in this case was the lack of follow-up help or support.

I do think somehow you need to recognise that for some parents, some communication virtually instead of in-person attendance might be preferable. Even if to avoid childcare having to be arranged. Just as there are some for whom working from home is preferable to being in an office and works better for both them and their employer.

Whilst you cannot have a hybrid approach to a nativity play, I expect that it may be something for things such as parents evenings.

myothercar that's not necessarily true. Depending on when schools had these things, they were certainly allowed.

Assemblies - allowed within bubbles

FtF parent meetings - allowed post 17th May

Nativities/school plays - allowed within bubbles without live audience up to 17th May. Allowed with live audience post 17th May with 50% audience capacity, distancing and masks.

Sports Days - allowed post 17th May as long as parents didn't gather in groups of more than 30.

Summer Term was relatively normal for us.

Unless you're not in England, that is

Well yes ... except that we were advised by our LEA to continue with our arrangements.
Also ... why stage a Nativity after May 17th?

I don't know why the LEA would advise you to add even more restrictions than the rest of the country were under? At a point that 1000s of people were allowed to go to a football match, an LEA was saying 100 or so parents can't go to a sports day?!

But yes, sure, of course no summer nativity! I just used the titles as you provided them and nativities were bracketed with all the other plays. We filmed and livestreamed our Autumn term plays (incl nativities - had to do 2 because of bubbles), performed Spring term productions live on Zoom and did all the Summer term productions to live audiences because we scheduled them all for after May 17th.

@NailsNeedDoing ah, I misunderstood you - I thought you literally meant “one adult”, ie the teacher, not “one each”.

That is better, I agree.