Nativity plays

[Provencerose]

I picked up my DD’s school uniform today as she starts school in September and apart from wondering how ‘normal’ her reception year will be, I’m thinking about events where parents are allowed into school. Do you think this will be allowed again or do you think there will be restrictions back in place for things like nativities, productions, fayers, etc?

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

They also didn't allow parents to sports day.

We're not going to invite parents to sports day in future. The children all loved it, lots of comments about not 'needing' to win. It was a properly fun and inclusive event, they all came out of it feeling great about themselves, no parents had arguments, no teachers felt stressed. Was ace.

Children preferred their parents not to watch them at sports day?? Really? The kids actively don’t want their mum or dad there. Bullshit. sorry, total bullshit. I have extensive primary school experience in a variety of areas in the south of England over the past 25 years and this is the biggest croc of crap I’ve heard for a while. It’s the teachers who don’t want parents there naturally. Don’t pretend or convince yourselves it’s anything that the majority of children want. In addition, by shutting parents out, it creates a divide between parents and teachers. This creates hostility which long term very negatively impacts the school and ultimately, children. Very short sighted and bad move.

It's good to film nativities and the children love to watch themselves with their families but it's no substitute for a live audience. For every child who freezes up in front of an audience and performs better in rehearsal, there are another 5 who do the opposite and come alive on stage.

We filmed all our productions on the Autumn Term, performed all the Spring Term productions live on Zoom and performed all the Summer Term productions in person.

Spring - nightmare but better than nothing
Autumn - fine but a bit flat. Good to have restart/edit options.
Summer - felt so good!

I don't think we'll go backwards.

There are no restrictions, no SD or masks so why wouldn't it go ahead?!

Filming them does help for those parents who are unable to make it in person, the mum guilt is unreal when you tell your child you can't be there. Also I do have a dc that hates an audience so for him the less people the better. Maybe the option for both will reduce actual people in the room for SD reasons and also mean no parents Will miss out and can watch at their convenience

We're not going to invite parents to sports day in future. The children all loved it, lots of comments about not 'needing' to win. It was a properly fun and inclusive event, they all came out of it feeling great about themselves, no parents had arguments, no teachers felt stressed. Was ace.

My suspicion is that this sort of decision is going to come back and bite schools in the arse. Post-Covid there is pretty much zero goodwill left among my friends with school-aged children towards schools that have spent 18 months alternately ignoring them, patronising them with endless preachy newsletters and generally treating parents as at best an inconvenience and at worst a full-on biohazard.

Many of my friends are the types that would fundraise for the school, volunteer for the PTA etc - not any more. Lots also saying they’d have no qualms now about taking kids out for a term-time holiday. There has been a real loss of trust.

I fear that the barriers put up during the pandemic between schools and parents, and the loss of the idea of schools being embedded in a wider community, will end up having significant implications for funding, attendance, pupil behaviour, community cohesion and so on.

My own DD is only 3, but for my own part I really hope that I can at least visit some of the schools we’re due to apply to for her Reception place this autumn, rather than choosing on spec as several friends have had to do this year.

how exactly are your school planning to explain that to parents?! “Sorry, it all went much better without you there so we’re not allowing you back.” I wouldn’t want to be in charge of the complaints email at your school…

Maybe by reminding parents that the school is there for the children. So they have the best opportunities and most positive experiences the school can provide, and they are not there to provide entertainment for the small proportion of parents that have enough annual leave to be randomly taking days off for sports days as well as covering holidays and illness and appointments ?
Yes, it is much easier to keep sports days just for the dc - not least because you can move the day / time of day as the weather changes which is much more difficult once parents start booking days or work to come and watch.

Totally agree @OnTheBrink1

@TempsPerdu, Who do you think suffers when parents don't fundraise?
It's not the school staff.

Many of my friends are the types that would fundraise for the school, volunteer for the PTA etc - not any more

How bizarre! The only people you would have an impact on here is your kids!

@TempsPerdu Of course it’s ultimately the children; for me they’re the ones who have lost the most throughout the pandemic. I’m not saying it’s a logical position on the parents’ part, but the dismissive, at times reproachful, attitude of some schools towards parents has certainly affected community cohesion where I am, and many parents I know feel less invested in schools and, by extension, their own children’s education. If you keep parents, literally and figuratively at arm’s length then this will have consequences for everyone.

Also the parents I’m referring to are generally solidly middle class and would be able to fill in at least so of the gaps at home, so those losing the most (as ever) will be the less advantaged kids whose parents had fewer resources to support them - and the school - in the first place.

@Howshouldibehave See my above post - not saying this position is desirable or especially logical, but given that many of the parents I know have felt almost entirely abandoned by their children’s schools for the past 18 months, it’s hardly surprising that they’re less inclined to offer them their time and money in future. In order to be engaged in something you need to feel like you are welcome there and have a genuine stake in it, beyond just handing your child over every day (often to an anonymous adult who you haven’t been able to talk to in person all year).

It’s not just schools; putting barriers - literally in many cases - between people will inevitably have knock-on effects on community relations in many ways.

This reminds me of something DS (7) came out with the other day. He said if you get a job in a school you won't get any money for it cos you have to buy things for the school all the time! We hadn't been talking about it at all, he just came out with it!

I do think that parental support for school full stop will reduce if parents are not included going forward. There is a know drop off in parents involvement in education when there children go to secondary school caused by distance so ultimately less involvement in supporting home work etc.

It may “only damage the kids” but in reality if primary kids want parents to listen to their kids read, do the phonics practice or generally have kids turn up with the right stuff on the right day keeping parents distanced from the school isn’t going to facilities that in most cases. In fact it is to facilitate this type of engagement that most schools started doing stuff like school assemblies to start with. Some teachers on this thread are coming across a bit naive o be honest.

Our village did an open air Nativity service on Christmas Eve last year, with some children taking part. It was lovely.

@OnTheBrink1 agreed and will even further widen the gap between state and private schools. There's not a chance in hell, private schools can keep parents away from functions and events for much longer. It's very much part of the culture both primary and secondary.

WTF were schools supposed to do when they were only following the many many guidelines issued by the DFE? The idea that schools hate parents is, frankly, risible. Come September, schools will go back to normal (for as long as we possibly can) which will mean assemblies, open days, events etc will be reinstated. Until the government decides otherwise.

My school will probably have parents back for sports day next year, but this year without parents really was so much better for the children. Of course, us staff preferred it too, but that’s mainly because it all went so much more smoothly with no upset children.

Of course on the whole they would like parents to watch, but those children who are still KS1 don’t really know any different, so they aren’t missing out. And it’s usually that age group of children that get overwhelmed and a little upset on sports days but we had none of that with parents absent. When there wasn’t the option to get upset and go and sit with a parent, no children got upset. It’s much more traumatic to come last in a race in front of your parents and grannie and everyone else’s parents who you know have excitedly come to watch you than it is to come last in a race in front of the people you usually do PE with.

We are also hoping to do Nativity this year, but it may mean that we have to do three parent performances rather than two, and it may only be possible to invite one parent for each child. Hopefully not, but children actually doing the performance is much more important than them having more than one adult there.

It may “only damage the kids” but in reality if primary kids want parents to listen to their kids read, do the phonics practice or generally have kids turn up with the right stuff on the right day keeping parents distanced from the school isn’t going to facilities that in most cases.

Parents not coming to school performances doesn’t damage kids. Parents refusing to read with their children or do anything to support their children’s education at home is damaging to kids, but schools deal with that regularly anyway. It is utterly pathetic to think to use reading with your own kid as some sort of bribery to make schools invite parents in to watch things. Especially when they only ever kept parents away in the first place because they genuinely believed it was for the best in the middle of a pandemic.

It might be pathetic but for years part of a lot of school policy for encouraging parental engagement in education ge really has been “get them into school, show them what we do and they will get the support” you can deny it or call it pathetic but a quick glance at governers minutes you and down the country will show - problem “parents don’t seem to be engaging with reading” solution “let’s get the parents in to show them our reading strategy and that will help”.

The problem here is so many teachers think calling parents pathetic and a nuecance helps matters but I haven’t come across a primary school that genuinely thinks “I know how to engaged parents I will call them pathetic lazy idiots who don’t care about their kids” in the newsletter that will help!

There is a huge difference between getting parents into school to show them what we do and how best to support their child’s learning at home, and getting them in for plays that are just a ‘nice to have’.

I did not say it was pathetic for schools to try and engage parents. That would make no sense. I said it was pathetic for parents to try and use supporting their own children as some form of bribery as previously suggested, because it is.

Parents should be willing to do their best to support their children’s education whether or not they get to see nativities and sports days, because if they don’t, the only people who lose out are their own children.

Schools never wanted to exclude parents just for the sake of it, it was done for good reason. Parents having a nice time and being able to take pictures of their children at school is not a head teacher’s priority when considering the safety of their students and staff.

Hopefully not, but children actually doing the performance is much more important than them having more than one adult there

Is it? What is the point of doing a performance to an empty hall? A four year old might not know the difference, but a seven year old definitely will. I wouldn’t have put much effort into performing to an audience of just my teacher, or nobody. I would have practised like mad for something my parents were coming to see.

Parents should be willing to do their best to support their children’s education whether or not they get to see nativities and sports days, because if they don’t, the only people who lose out are their own children

I’m not so sure that’s true actually, and I think it smacks of the naivety that another poster mentioned upthread.

DD and her preschool friends will be starting school next year. They are all very fortunate, privileged kids with engaged middle class parents who have plenty of resources. It is very true to say that, regardless of whether schools next year are ‘normal’ or not, we will all be supporting our children’s learning at home, ensuring they read and are read to, completing any homework/projects, ensuring they have the appropriate kit in school etc...

But that’s just helping our own, already privileged, kids. If none of the traditional ‘fun’ stuff (sports’ days, nativities, assemblies, trips) is accessible to us; if there are no social events to help parents meet and consolidate the school community; if there are no curriculum sessions for phonics etc; if parents’ evenings are now conducted solely over Zoom and it remains difficult to chat to the class teacher; if we can’t easily get inside the building to see where our children learn and what they are doing… Well, pragmatically speaking the traditional home-school relationship will then be much weaker, and the knock-on effects of this will go beyond individual children losing out. Among other things:

• Fewer opportunities for whole-school fundraising means schools become even more underfunded, and equality between the ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ within the school widens. Those losing out most from this won’t be ‘our’ kids; it will be those who get less input at home and were less advantaged to begin with.

• Social networks between parents break down or are never established in the first place, resulting in friendships being affected, fewer play dates for children - but also the loss of the idea of schools being at the heart of a wider community. Putting up barriers to community involvement means less mutually beneficial activity going on between schools and external individuals/organisations - churches, sports’ leaders, local businesspeople, author visits etc.

• More distanced relationship means a breakdown of trust between parents and school (I’ve already seen this happen with many friends who have school-aged children). Ultimately everyone becomes more socially divided and isolated from each other.

I also find the suggestion that putting more barriers between parents and schools is beneficial to the children pretty disingenuous. Every single one of the many teachers in my life loved Zoom parents’ evenings and would like them to continue - but the reason cited was always that it was quicker and meant parents could be cut off as soon as their allotted time slot was finished - the children’s welfare and well-being was never mentioned. I also agree that children need to get used to public speaking and performing to a range of audiences beyond their own peers, so parents being present at events is performing a useful function there too.

But ... all the things you mention were not allowed by the government due to the global pandemic.
Assemblies - not allowed
Face to face parents meetings - not allowed
Nativities / school plays - not allowed
Sports day with parent spectators - not allowed
Head teachers were dealing with a huge number of directives from the DFE, many of which arrived late at night and required an immediate update to the school risk assessment. It is simply not the case that schools have deliberately gone out of their way to exclude parents. That would be ridiculously short sighted. There is a balance to be struck though and privaleged parents threatening to throw their toys out of the pram (a la U4T) isn't helpful and frankly makes them look a bit silly.
Not going to fundraise? - Up to you
Not going to hear your children read? - Up to you
Not going to facilitate homework? - Up to you

Just to be clear school wasn’t normal last year for a good reason it might not be normal next year for a good reason but I do not believe as advocated on here that keeping those pesky parents away is good. It fractured the school community, it disengages parents from learning. There are good reasons to bring parents back abd not think the covid way of keeping them arms length was best of course it was necessary but it isn’t “much better this way” as other posters claimed longer term I think it can damage school communities and yes increase general disengagement.

@Changechangychange

Hopefully not, but children actually doing the performance is much more important than them having more than one adult there

Is it? What is the point of doing a performance to an empty hall? A four year old might not know the difference, but a seven year old definitely will. I wouldn’t have put much effort into performing to an audience of just my teacher, or nobody. I would have practised like mad for something my parents were coming to see.

They wouldn’t be performing to an empty hall or just their teacher based on what I said though would they? They’d have at least one adult there each, and everyone else’s adults.