Page 11 | What do you do if a family member is an anti-vaxxer?

bumbleymummy · 03/08/2021 20:00

PHE England Reinfections :

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1005056/Weekly_Flu_and_COVID-19_report_w29.pdf

sleepwouldbenice · 03/08/2021 21:44

@bumbleymummy

Fine. You can go into the same category as riveted. You’re wrong

🤔😉

OnTheBrink1 · 03/08/2021 22:01

Oh do get over yourself OP. People have every right to not have the vaccine. There is no hard evidence whatsoever to say that delta is spread less in a double vaxxed person than an unvaxxed person. Your parents are vaxxed so they have protection against severe illness. For all you know it will be you passing it on, only you won’t know you even have it

sleepwouldbenice · 03/08/2021 22:26

@OnTheBrink1

Oh do get over yourself OP. People have every right to not have the vaccine. There is no hard evidence whatsoever to say that delta is spread less in a double vaxxed person than an unvaxxed person. Your parents are vaxxed so they have protection against severe illness. For all you know it will be you passing it on, only you won’t know you even have it

See repeated posts below to the contrary

speckledostrichegg · 03/08/2021 22:54

ONCE MORE FOR THE CHEAP SEATS AT THE BACK

There is no hard evidence whatsoever to say that delta is spread less in a double vaxxed person than an unvaxxed person

If someone doesn't get infected with coronavirus, there's no chance of them passing it on. Vaccine efficacy (the proportion of people who get the disease in vaccinated compared to unvaccinated) is ~70%.

That's ~70% of people for whom is is now impossible for them to transmit coronavirus, compared to those who haven't been vaccinated.

If there was no difference in transmission between those vaccinated and unvaccinated, their efficacy would be 0% @OnTheBrink1

Xenia · 03/08/2021 23:03

We are 50/50 in the family and it has not caused any issues. We respect each other's choice and people who have had covid recently are probably less likely to spread it than someone who had their vaccine in Jan 2021 etc so it is not a simple issue that that unvaccinated are killers about to destroy the elderly parents!

bumbleymummy · 03/08/2021 23:03

That's ~70% of people for whom is is now impossible for them to transmit coronavirus, compared to those who haven't been vaccinated.

Don’t you mean compared to those who are not immune? See above info irt protection after natural infection. Just because someone is not vaccinated does not mean that they are not immune.

speckledostrichegg · 03/08/2021 23:12

@bumbleymummy

That's ~70% of people for whom is is now impossible for them to transmit coronavirus, compared to those who haven't been vaccinated.

Don’t you mean compared to those who are not immune? See above info irt protection after natural infection. Just because someone is not vaccinated does not mean that they are not immune.

ah still on here spreading the gospel @bumbleymummy

I gave the definition of vaccine efficacy. There's a huge dialogue around infection induced immunity, and the variable level of protection it gives it terms of preventing repeated infection and transmission to others.

Vaccination provides a quantifiable dose of antigen in two doses which has been designed to stimulate the best immune response possible, in as controlled conditions as possible. For infection, this is not the case. Most of the previous lit is in very targeted samples that are not generalisable.

Literally none of this is a reason to assume your previous infection has given you immunity that wouldn't be bolstered by further vaccination, and therefore offer better protection to yourself and others.

speckledostrichegg · 03/08/2021 23:15

Also, I was responding to the incorrect claim that There is no hard evidence whatsoever to say that delta is spread less in a double vaxxed person than an unvaxxed person, which is patently not true.

Although from looking through this thread it seems to be going round in circles somewhat.

Hawkins001 · 03/08/2021 23:27

If they have studied in detail to the likes that fox mulder devoted to the x files, then I'd consider their research and their studies, if however their sources are a couple of YouTube videos or x down the pub, then I'd take it with a bit of salt.

Fairunibutterfly · 04/08/2021 00:09

Hang on…

So we all know and agree those double vaxxed get less chance of hospitalisation and death.

The CDC say of infected people there is not much difference in transmission between the vaxxed (double) and non vaxxed.

But then ppl are rightly saying although the double vaxxed can still pass it on they’re less likely to get it in the first place hence lower transmission. I get that.

So then why are the double vaxxed so scared of the unvaxxed?

You’ve apparently got a lower risk of getting it anyway even if you were next to an infected person.

If you do get it you’re unlikely to get seriously ill.

If you do get it you can pass it on just as easily as the unvaccinated. Add to this (my opinion only btw) if you get it less severely you’re more likely to not show symptoms and carry on with your day vs someone severely ill stuck in bed.

Why all the hatred against the unvaccinated? It’s really as if the unvaccinated are permanently carrying Covid around like infectious zombies whereas no mention of this for the double vaxxed who are less likely to get infected but if infected could still pass it on. I know not every double vaxxed person thinks like this but I just don’t get it.

sunnymoo · 04/08/2021 02:51

but you can also pass on covid to your parents even if you are double vaccinated, so what is the difference

bumbleymummy · 04/08/2021 08:16

@speckledostrichegg I’ve linked to the Hiqa advice at the top of this page. It’s a brief summary but I’ve linked you to the studies before on other threads. I’m not sure why you are still peddling the ‘we don’t know about immunity after infection’ line. There is plenty of research that shows that natural immunity is reliable and long lasting the majority. Surely that’s a good thing? Why are you so keen to dismiss it?

And the point is, that if you’re unvaccinated and immune then you also a lower risk to others so you really shouldn’t just bundle all unvaccinated into one category and assume they’re not immune and bundle all vaccinated into another and assume that they are immune.

Madamemoiselle · 04/08/2021 09:36

@BrutusMcDogface

I’m so angry with my sibling for putting my parents at risk. So very, very angry.

WWYD? Avoid him? Avoid them?!

Can’t believe he’s being so selfish!

Are your parents vaccinated? If so, what are you worried about, their vaccination will protect them won’t it? If it won’t, then why are you “so angry with your sibling for putting them at risk“, given that his vaccine will also have the same deficiencies that you clearly suspect yours from having? Also, have you asked yourself how a vaccine, which clearly has not worked very well to stop infect or transmission in Israel, Malta, Gibraltar, Iceland, and here at home, also HMS Queen Elizabeth, and Sajid Javid, is supposed to work in the case of your parents?

sleepwouldbenice · 04/08/2021 09:55

Jesus wept

One more time

Being vaccinated reduces transmission therefore overall risk

Quoting cases where it hasn't doesn't change this. It just makes you look stupid

Madamemoiselle · 04/08/2021 10:27

Not very effective in the case of the now predominant delta variant though, is it?
You’ll be aware of the CDCs latest findings that the vaccinated transmit delta just as much (if they’ve admitted this, it probably means more than) as the unvaccinated?

beckyyl · 04/08/2021 10:50

@Fairunibutterfly

Hang on…

So we all know and agree those double vaxxed get less chance of hospitalisation and death.

The CDC say of infected people there is not much difference in transmission between the vaxxed (double) and non vaxxed.

But then ppl are rightly saying although the double vaxxed can still pass it on they’re less likely to get it in the first place hence lower transmission. I get that.

So then why are the double vaxxed so scared of the unvaxxed?

You’ve apparently got a lower risk of getting it anyway even if you were next to an infected person.

If you do get it you’re unlikely to get seriously ill.

If you do get it you can pass it on just as easily as the unvaccinated. Add to this (my opinion only btw) if you get it less severely you’re more likely to not show symptoms and carry on with your day vs someone severely ill stuck in bed.

Why all the hatred against the unvaccinated? It’s really as if the unvaccinated are permanently carrying Covid around like infectious zombies whereas no mention of this for the double vaxxed who are less likely to get infected but if infected could still pass it on. I know not every double vaxxed person thinks like this but I just don’t get it.

Exactly

I dont see why the double jabbed have such a bee in their bonnet. If YOU are jabbed then 'technically' you are more protected so why does it matter what someone else does?

Secondly for context me and hubby aren't vaccinated, just had covid. Me no symptoms and him a headache for 2 days and a cough.
All his family in London caught it 3 weeks ago, all still suffering and one is in hospital - all double jabbed and one already had covid last year and has spread between them like wildfire.

My children are vaccinated and i am not an anti vaxer however everyone has the right to be cautious over a new vaccine that was made so quickly that does not make you an anti vaxer.

Lastly if you go on the gov website and look through the published data it does state 'The resurgence in both hospitalisations and deaths is dominated by those that have recieved two doses of the vaccine, comprising of around 60% and 70% of the wave retrospectively'. This is on the gov website data that anyone can access before anyone jumps saying its off a fake website or something.
I am not an antivaxer however people who still have concerns should not be ridiculed.

OnTheBrink1 · 04/08/2021 10:59

@sleepwouldbenice

Jesus wept

One more time

Being vaccinated reduces transmission therefore overall risk

Quoting cases where it hasn't doesn't change this. It just makes you look stupid

That would be fine, except all the latest evidence from the CDC suggests that it’s not the case at all.

Madamemoiselle · 04/08/2021 11:38

[ quote] All his family in London caught it 3 weeks ago, all still suffering and one is in hospital - all double jabbed and one already had covid last year and has spread between them like wildfire.[/ quote]

That sounds a lot like the problem of ADE (antibody dependant enhancement), which has plagued all previous attempts to produce vaccines for coronavirus, and was predicted to happen last year by many prominent virologists and epidemiologists.
Unfortunately their views were censored by the main media outlets so I expect many people didn’t get to hear them.

speckledostrichegg · 04/08/2021 11:39

That would be fine, except all the latest evidence from the CDC suggests that it’s not the case at all.

That is exactly what the CDC report says.

As stated (repeated ad nauseum), infection is not equal between those vaccinated and those unvaccinated. If it was, vaccine efficacy would be 0% which is clearly not the case - estimates range from 60-90% depending on various factors.

If you do not have coronavirus you cannot transmit it

speckledostrichegg · 04/08/2021 11:43

@Madamemoiselle

[ quote] All his family in London caught it 3 weeks ago, all still suffering and one is in hospital - all double jabbed and one already had covid last year and has spread between them like wildfire.[/ quote]

That sounds a lot like the problem of ADE (antibody dependant enhancement), which has plagued all previous attempts to produce vaccines for coronavirus, and was predicted to happen last year by many prominent virologists and epidemiologists.
Unfortunately their views were censored by the main media outlets so I expect many people didn’t get to hear them.

It doesn't sound a thing like ADE @Madamemoiselle, it sounds like coronavirus

ADE is a life threatening emergency and if it was a problem (given that we've vaccinated billions of people whilst rates of CV are very high), it would have become apparent by now.

Actual experts explained why ADE was extremely unlikely and was not a concern or a reason to not vaccinate people. People spreading false information didn't have their views reported widely, although can be found on places like bitchute.

Not trying to stop your vaccine scaremongering though.

bumbleymummy · 04/08/2021 11:50

If you do not have coronavirus you cannot transmit it

Same applies to unvaccinated people. (Repeat ad nauseam)

Madamemoiselle · 04/08/2021 11:52

No you’re wrong, it’s merely an enhancement of disease caused by the vaccine produced neutralising antibodies waning, and a higher proportion of non neutralising antibodies remaining. What you’re describing sounds more like a cytokine storm, which can be a further result, and can also happen if someone with pre existing immunity is vaccinated, then catches a different strain of the disease.
Most agree that ADE would take a minimum of 6 months, more likely a year to emerge, so early signs showing up now would fit with that.
But maybe I’m an idiot? Don’t worry it doesn’t matter what I think, or what you think, what will be will be. We’ve made our decision, now we must live with it.

sleepwouldbenice · 04/08/2021 11:55

No it doesn't. Stop being desperate....

sleepwouldbenice · 04/08/2021 11:57

@bumbleymummy

If you do not have coronavirus you cannot transmit it

Same applies to unvaccinated people. (Repeat ad nauseam)

And you're more likely to have it if you're not vaccinated. Well done you're nearly there ( placing bets you'll go on about immunity from infection again now)